The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Voyager (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=41)
-   -   When did voyager go wrong? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=207424)

WesleysDisciple March 27 2013 06:38 PM

When did voyager go wrong?
 
Specificaly where did it seem to become TNG with a very mild twist. and new charachters.


Look im not saying Choakotay should have been perpetualy shouting at JAneway, but id have liked to see more of "Your not making it easy for me!" from the 2nd edpisode.


or some follow up to the Resentment between chakotay and Paris in the first episode.

one Act might be enough to cause him to decide he should grudiginlgy reconsider his opinion of the man, but it wont simply sweep it under the rug.

I've heard this was due to executive meddling but I'd have liked seeing more conflict.

So anyone have ideas on where voyager truly deviated from its potential and descended into the depths of mediocrity?

USS Firefly March 27 2013 06:50 PM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
It went wrong the moment they had enough energy too keep the ship in perfect shape, build everything they need, torpedo's shuttle's, food, etc.
In my opinion it felt all too save.

King Daniel Into Darkness March 27 2013 07:32 PM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
It went wrong when they decided to pair Seven with Chakotay. Until then, it was fine.

Lynx March 27 2013 09:56 PM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
When Kes was kicked out and Voyager was turned into a three-character show.

teacake March 27 2013 10:00 PM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
It never went wrong, IT WAS PERFECT.

lurok March 27 2013 10:04 PM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
Damn. I was just about to post that! Ninja'd.

teacake March 27 2013 10:06 PM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
You can always post it in the ENT forum which is replete with such threads.

ENT forum you used to be cool man.. you changed.

Melakon March 27 2013 10:11 PM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
Quote:

WesleysDisciple wrote: (Post 7859221)
Specificaly where did it seem to become TNG with a very mild twist. and new charachters.

I never had that impression of it. Is this new fan argument? It used to be Kirk vs. Picard, and now it's TNG vs. Every Other Series?

DarKush March 27 2013 10:41 PM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
I've been rewatching VOY on Hulu and it's not as bad as I remember. That being said, I think VOY went wrong when it put the Maquis in Starfleet uniforms at the end of Caretaker. I wish that had taken longer-a season or two, or that some people never got to that point where they felt comfortable putting on a Starfleet uniform. I don't mean the traitors like Seska or Jonas (?), but just some people who were willing to compromise yet not go easily back into the chain of command.

I also think the show erred when it made the Kazon the main heavies early on instead of the Vidiians.

WesleysDisciple March 27 2013 11:25 PM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
I have to admit... 7 has some good episodes, but I have to agree with the assesment she takes over the show.

not particularly averse to her romance with chakotay, though.

CorporalClegg March 27 2013 11:35 PM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
Quote:

Lynx wrote: (Post 7860388)
When Kes was kicked out and Voyager was turned into a three-character show.

And the way she was kicked to the curb was awful. When they picked to keep Wang over her because he gained some notoriety in a magazine for looking good and then replaced her with a bonafide beauty queen, the producers were essentially telling her "We're letting you go because you're not beautiful enough."

What a shitty thing to do, and I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't have some residual psychological effects from the experience.

JanewayRulz! March 27 2013 11:35 PM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
Quote:

King Daniel wrote: (Post 7859557)
It went wrong when they decided to pair Seven with Chakotay. Until then, it was fine.


:bolian: :bolian: :bolian: I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!! :bolian: :bolian: :bolian:

Pavonis March 28 2013 12:05 AM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
Well, I'll give a serious answer.

When Voyager debuted, it seemed like an interesting concept. Trek was returning to exploration, but with the heroes stranded on the other side of the galaxy. I had no problem with that. It just seemed to scream "serialization" to me, though. Each episode would build on the previous, with the heroes scraping by, surviving but not easily, with problems stemming from being alone, being under-supplied, being under-manned (what with having to use the Maquis and all). It seemed like a great idea.

Then, during the actual run, they drop most of these potential plots pretty quickly. The Maquis are buddy-buddy with Starfleet, since most of them seemed to be former Starfleet anyway. The ship was easily repaired all the time. Well, ok, they have some ability to repair away from spacedock facilities, that's expected, but for multiple years? It should've gotten harder and harder to make perfect repairs all the time.

One thing that struck me was that they did try to grow some of their own food. I thought that was a cool idea. But their hydroponic garden was a joke - a couple racks of potted plants doesn't add up to much. I expected, at some point, to see an overflowing greenhouse, with stalks of wheat and corn and vegetables. We never really got to see that, though. All in all, the episodic nature of the show during its initial run left me disappointed with a series that should, to my mind, have been as serialized as much as DS9 was. However, in re-runs, I can enjoy it far more than I did in the first run.

I guess the TPTB were right in the end. The episodic nature of Voyager left it with longer legs for reruns. I love DS9, but you can't just watch one episode out of order - it's too serialized for that. When I do watch DS9, I watch it from start to finish. But with Voyager, I'll watch any old episode at any time without worrying (much) about plot arcs. And that's what the producers wanted.

WesleysDisciple March 28 2013 12:20 AM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
I think it would have been better serialized too.

DS9 does the opposite. it is episodic in its first season then it becomes increasingly serial.

CorporalClegg March 28 2013 12:33 AM

Re: When did voyager go wrong?
 
I think people sometimes over emphasize the "serialness" of DS9. It really wasn't as extreme as people make it out to be. People like to throw around the "It was ahead of its time," excuse. But even that's somewhat hyperbole.

Seasons 1-2 were totally episodic. Seasons 3,4 & 5 were mostly episodic with an increasing amount of serialization each year. Season 6 was half and half, and with season 7 finally swung to mostly serialized.

The thing is, even by '94/95, there were plenty of shows on television that were more serialized than DS9 ever was. And buy '97/98, the pendulum had fully started to swing.

Voyager was fine episodic. And I think Enterprise would have been fine if it had stayed episodic.

I'd even argue that nowadays the pendulum has swung too far (especially with genre shows) and some episodic sci-fi might be a breath of fresh air.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:18 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.