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-   -   Coming Around (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=207295)

AdmiralScreed March 26 2013 04:26 AM

Coming Around
 
Hey TOS fans,

If you're limited to mostly the TOS forums on this site, then you probably don't know me too well. Lately I've been posting a lot in Voyager, and in the past I've posted quite a bit in the TNG, DS9, movie, and general discussion forums. For the longest time, my interest in Trek has been pretty limited to just TNG, DS9, and more recently Voyager. From time to time I've watched an occasional episode of TOS, but in the past it just hasn't peaked my interest. The corny dialogue, effects, and some wooden acting (among other things) made it hard for me to enjoy.

At one point, probably a year and a half back, I started a thread in the general section called TOS: Overrated??? critiquing the show, characters, writing, and whatnot. I got quite a backlash from the TOS fans from asserting that the iconic TOS was somehow overrated. The thread was not started to provoke anyone, I merely felt the show's high reputation wasn't completely deserved and I wanted to hear other fans thoughts.

Since finishing Voyager I've gone back and watched some more TOS. Believe it or not, I am actually really enjoying it now! Last night I watched a season one episode called A Taste of Armageddon. It was really exciting, dramatic, and it had an interesting and creative premise. I've discovered, looking back, that each time I've returned to TOS I've liked it a little bit more than the previous time I watched it. I feel like it may be an acquired taste. It takes getting used to, and you may not like it at first, but once you've watched enough of it and gotten used to it you start to see it in a different light. You become less distracted by the 60's corniness and are able to appreciate the quality writing and characterization much more.

Anyway, it's been two years and probably 30 episodes since I watched my first episode of TOS. In that time I've finished TNG, watched all of DS9, and watched all of VOY. It's taken a long time, but I'm glad that I've come around to the show. It means there's still a lot of quality Trek out there for me to enjoy! :techman:

Just thought you TOS folks might want to hear my story.

ZapBrannigan March 26 2013 04:36 AM

Re: Coming Around
 
You'll probably never love TOS like somebody who loved it before the sequel-series era began in 1987, but you're going to see a lot of good episodes and have some fun. TOS is more theatrical, but that can be a great thing in its own right.

Marsden March 26 2013 03:01 PM

Re: Coming Around
 
Quote:

AdmiralScreed wrote: (Post 7851883)
...The corny dialogue, effects, and some wooden acting (among other things) made it hard for me to enjoy...

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm keying in on a small part of your post, but what was corny. What acting was wooden? Can you specify only so that I might understand.

If a criticism towards the acting is usually voiced, it's usually the opposite of wooden, i.e. overacting.

And the effects were what they were. The story always trumps effects IMO, but I know many people don't feel that way. I am willing to watch toys on highly visible wires as long as the story about it is good. That can be too jarring for some and they don't want to see the story anymore. Then there's the other end of the spectrum and the effects are incredible and wonderful and amazing and the story seems like it was written by a committee of third graders.

Certain words like "corney" might have a different meaning for some people than others. It's not a well defined word being that it's used to express an opinon, so one person's corney could be another's not corney.

Otherwise, I'm happy you're enjoying it, it's a great show IMO and if it seems cliche, it's usually because they have been copied so many times by others since then.

Gojira March 26 2013 03:22 PM

Re: Coming Around
 
I grew up on TOS in the 70s so it is my favorite series. There are some wonderful episodes as well as some stinkers.

If you have a problem with the special effects I suggest you watch the remastered versions.

Warped9 March 27 2013 04:30 AM

Re: Coming Around
 
Funny thing I've always found VOY and ENT and a fair amount of later TNG unwatchable.

AdmiralScreed March 27 2013 04:47 AM

Re: Coming Around
 
@Marsden: My mistake, overacting was definitely the better word to describe it, even though the two words have completely opposite meanings. Sorry for the confusion, thanks for pointing out my error. :confused:

The acting is certainly more theatrical than in the later shows. Even seemingly the simplest lines of dialogue are spoken with so much flare and drama. Probably not the most realistic, but I'm learning to both look past it and at times enjoy it for its humor. The acting was definitely more laid back in the later shows.

@Gojira: I've been watching it on Netflix, so I'm pretty sure I'm getting the remastered versions. I don't have anything to compare the new effects to since I haven't seen the nonremastered versions, but the CGI and other effects that I'm guessing are updates look pretty decent. :techman:

@ZapBrannigan: That's probably true. It won't have the nostalgia factor going for it either, but the more I watch it, the more I think I can really get into it. It's very different from the later shows, so I think the different style of the show was a major reason it didn't appeal to me at first.

@Warped9: I've only seen the first dozen or so episodes of ENT. Not really my cup of tea either. A little too bland I thought. I came to enjoy Voyager in the last two seasons, but the first five seasons were hit and miss for me. More often good than bad, which is why I stuck with it until the end, but the show definitely had its problems. It didn't live up to it's potential IMO.

Melakon March 27 2013 04:54 AM

Re: Coming Around
 
Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 7851931)
TOS is more theatrical, but that can be a great thing in its own right.

I've always thought science fiction is the most theatrical form of visual presentation, and Star Trek (in all its incarnations) does the theatrical aspect best of all.

There's a stylization of performance in Star Trek sometimes missing in other filmed science fiction, possibly aided by the franchise's frequent use of actors trained in theatre for regulars and guest stars.

One of the cast members (I don't remember who or which series) compared it to doing a period piece, which sounds pretty accurate to me.

Lance March 27 2013 11:23 AM

Re: Coming Around
 
As somebody who did come to TOS late (I was a TNG child yo), I came to appreciate it by putting it in context of it's era. Place it alongside the sixties Batman series, Get Smart, things like that. The 'corny' aspects are perfectly palatable in that context. TOS is a carefree, fun series that doesn't take itself too seriously most of the time. It arguably doesn't have the layers of some later instalments of the franchise, but what it lacks in those departments it more than makes up for with it's sheer, unadulterated sense of 'joie de vivre'. ;)

ssosmcin March 27 2013 05:25 PM

Re: Coming Around
 
It helps if you can watch the series (any series, actually) in the context of their time. Never judge a show filmed in 1967 with 2013 eyes. Nothing is the same anymore, with nearly 50 years of evolution in acting styles, effects technology and storytelling styles. Considering the hundreds of great TV series which have been forgotten in that time, the fact that Trek continues to be seen is something of a minor miracle.

If you every look at other shows of the era, you'll notice the acting styles to be similar. Shatner was always pretty bold, but a lot of actors were then. Especially the Canadians (I say this because Lorne Green and John Colicos popped into my head). :) In the sequel series, only Avery Brooks captured that theatricality.

Good on you, though, for giving it another shot. I'm thrilled you're enjoying it. Welcome to the club!

Hambone March 27 2013 06:05 PM

Re: Coming Around
 
Quote:

Warped9 wrote: (Post 7857202)
Funny thing I've always found VOY and ENT and a fair amount of later TNG unwatchable.

I find most of them un-REwatchable. With a few exceptions, I can't sit through a repeat episode of TNG or VOY. DS9 held my attention a little better once the ball got rolling.

bbailey861 March 27 2013 09:49 PM

Re: Coming Around
 
Quote:

Lance wrote: (Post 7857904)
As somebody who did come to TOS late (I was a TNG child yo), I came to appreciate it by putting it in context of it's era.

Well said. Reading many of the posts complaining about TOS, I think that a great many posters fail to do this very thing. TOS is a product of the 60s and I think it is important to remember that.

Quote:

Place it alongside the sixties Batman series, Get Smart, things like that. The 'corny' aspects are perfectly palatable in that context. TOS is a carefree, fun series that doesn't take itself too seriously most of the time.
Maybe the right word isn't 'corny', because while dated, I don't put TOS in the same class as either Batman or Get Smart and I liked both of them. There was certainly (or at least attempted) humor in Trek but I don't think it went so far as to be 'comic-y' like Batman or as 'spoof-y' as Get Smart.

Quote:

It arguably doesn't have the layers of some later instalments of the franchise, but what it lacks in those departments it more than makes up for with it's sheer, unadulterated sense of 'joie de vivre'. ;)
See your first comment and look at it in that light. Compared to much of the television 'fiction fare' of the 60s, TOS was full of layers - couched to be palatable to a very diverse viewing audience who the network did not want to offend and to be acceptable to advertisers and studio brass who were always on the lookout.

CaptainDave1701 March 28 2013 02:30 PM

Re: Coming Around
 
Quote:

Warped9 wrote: (Post 7857202)
Funny thing I've always found VOY and ENT and a fair amount of later TNG unwatchable.

Ditto....

I was there in 66 when Star Trek was on TV.
The kids probably don't like my brand of Rock-n-Roll either.

Marsden March 28 2013 03:31 PM

Re: Coming Around
 
Quote:

AdmiralScreed wrote: (Post 7857295)
@Marsden: My mistake, overacting was definitely the better word to describe it, even though the two words have completely opposite meanings. Sorry for the confusion, thanks for pointing out my error. :confused:

The acting is certainly more theatrical than in the later shows. Even seemingly the simplest lines of dialogue are spoken with so much flare and drama. Probably not the most realistic, but I'm learning to both look past it and at times enjoy it for its humor. The acting was definitely more laid back in the later shows.

No worries, friend. I enjoy the "emoting" going on an delight in it. I understand less is more and can be considered "better" but it's all up to the beholder. For Example, I disagree about opinons saying Shatner over did it. Really. I like it. Look at Morgan Woodward in Dagger of the Mind or William Windom in Doomsday Machine, I love that stuff. Does that make me wrong? But I know it's not to everyone's taste. Enjoy!

CaptPapa March 30 2013 01:08 AM

Re: Coming Around
 
Quote:

CaptainDave1701 wrote: (Post 7863739)
Quote:

Warped9 wrote: (Post 7857202)
Funny thing I've always found VOY and ENT and a fair amount of later TNG unwatchable.

Ditto....

I was there in 66 when Star Trek was on TV.
The kids probably don't like my brand of Rock-n-Roll either.

I'm with you 100%, and as the good doctor said, "we don't hear the words of the Klingons".

AtoZ March 31 2013 01:11 AM

Re: Coming Around
 
Quote:

Warped9 wrote: (Post 7857202)
Funny thing I've always found VOY and ENT and a fair amount of later TNG unwatchable.

100% agreed.

And lets remember, without TOS none of them - none of them - would have been given the green light. None of them.


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