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-   -   Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=207271)

Gojira March 26 2013 12:18 AM

Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
I was just compairing Kirk and Picard in another thread when I realized that Kirk's actions as Captain needs to be seen in light of the era TOS was filmed. It was the 1960s and it was the decade of when youth began confronting authority and I think that had a great influence on the scripts and how Kirk played his role as Captain. He too would go against authority when he thought it was the right thing to do.

ZapBrannigan March 26 2013 01:20 AM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
It seems like defying one's superiors and getting away with it is a major theme in the whole ST franchise, especially when those to be defied are higher up than the star of the show. It's come up in several of the movies.

Gojira March 26 2013 01:34 AM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 7851094)
It seems like defying one's superiors and getting away with it is a major theme in the whole ST franchise, especially when those to be defied are higher up than the star of the show. It's come up in several of the movies.

I can agree with that. I just wonder if that Trek tradition of defying authority was something that was born in the rebelliousness of the 60s?

Nerys Myk March 26 2013 01:47 AM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
I think it was part of the WWII mind set. Roddenberry and others were vets and no doubt drew upon that when writing Kirk. Citizens turned soldiers with a healthy disregard for authority seems to common theme in WWII set film and television. McHale's Navy, Hogans Heroes and Kelly's Heroes come to mind. MASH, though set in the Korean War, is another one.

scotpens March 26 2013 04:31 AM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
Quote:

Gojira wrote: (Post 7850821)
I was just comparing Kirk and Picard in another thread when I realized that Kirk's actions as Captain needs to be seen in light of the era TOS was filmed. It was the 1960s and it was the decade of when youth began confronting authority and I think that had a great influence on the scripts and how Kirk played his role as Captain.

I'm not sure the zeitgeist had that much to do with it. Youth has been rebelling against authority since before the time of Socrates.

ZapBrannigan March 26 2013 04:41 AM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
Quote:

scotpens wrote: (Post 7851901)
I'm not sure the zeitgeist had that much to do with it. Youth has been rebelling against authority since before the time of Socrates.

True. Where the '60s zeitgeist intrudes most obviously is in "The Way to Eden," and Kirk is on the side of the establishment in that one. Also, he rejected the drug culture in "This Side of Paradise." He was right both times if you ask me.

Marsden March 26 2013 02:25 PM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
I think Kirk was in a moderate position in The Way to Eden, he was in authority, but he didn't seem to want to be oppressive. Chekov was the super rigid authority guy in attitudes. Scotty was almost but he didn't have as many lines.

And I agree, I think Kirk was right both times.

Gojira March 26 2013 06:21 PM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
Quote:

scotpens wrote: (Post 7851901)
Quote:

Gojira wrote: (Post 7850821)
I was just comparing Kirk and Picard in another thread when I realized that Kirk's actions as Captain needs to be seen in light of the era TOS was filmed. It was the 1960s and it was the decade of when youth began confronting authority and I think that had a great influence on the scripts and how Kirk played his role as Captain.

I'm not sure the zeitgeist had that much to do with it. Youth has been rebelling against authority since before the time of Socrates.

True, I remember reading that the 60s was the first time when the rebelling youth became an economic power in its own right and that contributed to a focusing on them within the context of the larger culture.

jayrath March 26 2013 09:50 PM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
Dunno about that. You could easily argue the same for the 1920s.

Anyway, Kirk was presented as a hero. To be a hero, you need to be presented with difficult choices. It's just plain dramatic to have Kirk question orders.

Gojira March 28 2013 01:28 AM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
Quote:

jayrath wrote: (Post 7855162)
Dunno about that. You could easily argue the same for the 1920s.

Anyway, Kirk was presented as a hero. To be a hero, you need to be presented with difficult choices. It's just plain dramatic to have Kirk question orders.

True! It is interesting to see the different changes in the youth culture.

marksound March 28 2013 02:19 AM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
Damn hippies.

Marsden March 28 2013 03:37 PM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
Quote:

Carcazoid wrote: (Post 7861651)
Damn hippies.


I think it's interesting to note that the "hippies" were following an insane "guru" The hippies' main crime, like all hippies, is they're stupid but think they're smarter than everyone else. Plus, they're smelly. I got my TOS-RS in smellovision and wow! P U :ack:

Actually, that applys to a lot of people.

Mr. Adventure March 29 2013 12:08 AM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
Quote:

Nerys Myk wrote: (Post 7851214)
I think it was part of the WWII mind set. Roddenberry and others were vets and no doubt drew upon that when writing Kirk. Citizens turned soldiers with a healthy disregard for authority seems to common theme in WWII set film and television. McHale's Navy, Hogans Heroes and Kelly's Heroes come to mind. MASH, though set in the Korean War, is another one.

You don't think it might have something to do with those shows being made in the 60's?

T'Girl March 29 2013 12:55 AM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
Quote:

Gojira wrote: (Post 7850821)
He too would go against authority when he thought it was the right thing to do.

Kirk's going against authority during TOS is overblown, that's more a feature of the movies made in the eighties. Kirk during TOS is depicted as a professional military officer, who in fact is obedient to those place in authority above him.

In both A Taste of Armageddon, and The Galileo Seven Kirk disagreed with the civilian officials present, but when they gave him lawful instructions, he followed those instructions. In The Immunity Syndrome he offered reasons why the Enterprise was the wrong ship for a particular mission, but followed the orders he was given.

The only time Kirk blatantly disobeyed authority was in Amok Time.

:)

Greg Cox March 29 2013 01:01 AM

Re: Captain Kirk, Authority and the 1960s
 
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 7867075)
The only time Kirk blatantly disobeyed authority was in Amok Time.

:)

Unless, of course, you count his somewhat "flexible" approach to the Prime Directive . . . :)


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