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-   -   Could the Dominion War have been avoided? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=207199)

hxclespaulplayer March 25 2013 12:55 PM

Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
The Jem'Hadar that beamed onto DS9 at the end of "The Jem'Hadar" warned Sisko, et al to stay on their side of the wormhole. Now, I'm sure that there's plenty of the alpha and beta quadrants that's unexplored, why not avoid the gamma quadrant altogether and avert hostilities? I do know that starfleet is all about exploring, but at the cost of starting a war? I don't see them encroaching on Romulan space in order to explore.

bullethead March 25 2013 01:06 PM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
No. The Founders were already preparing to take on the Federation in ~70 years time and without Odo, there was no dissenting perspective to their (apparently) species wide xenophobia and paranoia.

indolover March 25 2013 01:12 PM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
War was inevitable, from the first time Sisko met the Dominion.

The Founders detest solids, and frankly saw any solid as a threat. In a way they were like the Borg, they couldn't be reasoned with.

After the events of the Search, the Federation should have actually mined with wormhole, with the agreement of the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, etc.

Pavonis March 25 2013 02:30 PM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
What if China told everyone in the world, "Stay out of the Pacific Ocean, or there will be war.", or what if India said, "Don't sail the Indian Ocean, it's ours, so if you enter it we will go to war!". Would it be realistic and acceptable for the rest of the world to just stop sailing in the Pacific and/or Indian Oceans based on a threat like that? Because that's what the Dominion did. The wormhole didn't open up in orbit of their capital, you know. It took over a year before the Alpha Quadrant powers even directly encountered the Dominion. For the Dominion to claim the entire Gamma Quadrant is just as unreasonable and unrealistic.

hxclespaulplayer March 25 2013 02:54 PM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
Quote:

bullethead wrote: (Post 7848061)
No. The Founders were already preparing to take on the Federation in ~70 years time and without Odo, there was no dissenting perspective to their (apparently) species wide xenophobia and paranoia.

I don't recall this, is it canon?

bullethead March 25 2013 03:20 PM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
Quote:

hxclespaulplayer wrote: (Post 7848436)
Quote:

bullethead wrote: (Post 7848061)
No. The Founders were already preparing to take on the Federation in ~70 years time and without Odo, there was no dissenting perspective to their (apparently) species wide xenophobia and paranoia.

I don't recall this, is it canon?

The Founders mention that they weren't expecting the Federation for around another 70 years in The Search, Part II.

As for the Founders being paranoid xenophobes, just watch any episode featuring them after The Search and before the series finale.

Pavonis March 25 2013 04:10 PM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
It's amazing how much memory can be corrupted.

Odo was told he wasn't expected by the Great Link for another 300 years. Seventy years is the supposed travel time from the Gamma to Alpha Quadrants. Looks like you conflated those two values.

Jono March 26 2013 03:14 AM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
Quote:

bullethead wrote: (Post 7848508)
Quote:

hxclespaulplayer wrote: (Post 7848436)
Quote:

bullethead wrote: (Post 7848061)
No. The Founders were already preparing to take on the Federation in ~70 years time and without Odo, there was no dissenting perspective to their (apparently) species wide xenophobia and paranoia.

I don't recall this, is it canon?

The Founders mention that they weren't expecting the Federation for around another 70 years in The Search, Part II.

As for the Founders being paranoid xenophobes, just watch any episode featuring them after The Search and before the series finale.

It isn't canon. What you are probably remembering is that the Founders didn't expect Odo back for something like 300 years. The idea that the Dominion knew about the Federation prior to the wormhole and expected to contact them much later then they did was an idea that never made it to the screen

This is from MA:

Quote:

One idea that the writers had that was never actively utilized on-screen was that the Dominion knew about the Federation long before the Bajoran wormhole was discovered, and that they were developing a long-term strategy to deal with the inevitable contact. As Wolfe explains, "The Dominion knew the Federation was out there long before the wormhole was opened, and they had plans to deal with the Federation when the Federation was projected to enter their space in two hundred years, and they were building slowly towards that, that's why they sent out Odo in the first place. But then the wormhole opens up and suddenly the Federation is in their backyard today and it just throws everything into question for both the Federation and the Dominion." (The Birth of the Dominion and Beyond, DS9 Season 3 DVD special features)
Given we saw a Federation probe deep in the Delta Quadrant and what happened to the likes of Voyager it isn't hard to believe that a piece of Federation found its way to the Dominion.

As for the war, it was avoidable at least for the medium term by collapsing the wormhole. The Federation did try but they were sabotaged. Not using the wormhole wouldn't have prevented the war. Really if the Dominion was serious about that threat they would have actively blockaded the wormhole instead of doing nothing.

James T. Vader March 26 2013 03:19 AM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
As far back as Meridan we essentially got

Ship’s Log: In direct violation of the Prime Directive and Starfleet Procedure, not to mention the demands of the Dominion that we stay the hell out of their space, I’ve taken the Defiant on a survey mission into the Gamma Quadrant.

Pavonis March 26 2013 03:43 AM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
Your quote is factually wrong. The log entry from the episode "Meridian" is, according to Memory Alpha,

Quote:

"Commander's log, Stardate 48423.2. Despite the continuing threat posed by the Dominion, I've convinced Starfleet that we must continue our exploration of the Gamma Quadrant."
No mention of Prime Directive violations or going ahead without orders. Sisko called the Dominion's bluff.

-Brett- March 26 2013 03:48 AM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
Quote:

hxclespaulplayer wrote: (Post 7848031)
The Jem'Hadar that beamed onto DS9 at the end of "The Jem'Hadar" warned Sisko, et al to stay on their side of the wormhole.

If the Dominion really wanted that result, assault and kidnapping were exactly the wrong ways to get it.

Nagisa Furukawa March 26 2013 05:21 AM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
How has no one mentioned The Visitor?! In that, we're explicitly shown a timeline where if Sisko were to disappear circa Series 4, the Dominion War never happened up and Jadzia was still alive by the time Jake was an old man.

Pavonis March 26 2013 05:39 AM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
So? Does that make the war explicitly Sisko's fault? Without him around, different decisions were made, different at all levels, from tactical to political. But Sisko didn't make the Dominion an aggressive power. In "The Visitor" timeline, the Dominion war may only have been postponed.

James T. Vader March 26 2013 11:45 AM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
Quote:

Pavonis wrote: (Post 7851700)
Your quote is factually wrong. The log entry from the episode "Meridian" is, according to Memory Alpha,

Quote:

"Commander's log, Stardate 48423.2. Despite the continuing threat posed by the Dominion, I've convinced Starfleet that we must continue our exploration of the Gamma Quadrant."
No mention of Prime Directive violations or going ahead without orders. Sisko called the Dominion's bluff.

Ibsaid essentalially. I was embellishing

Nightdiamond March 26 2013 01:09 PM

Re: Could the Dominion War have been avoided?
 
It didn't make much sense to keep the wormhole open, and keep going in the Gamma Quadrant frequently, when they knew a very powerful and dangerous enemy was threatening to attack them.

But based on the whole story line , this is what I get; The wormhole boosted Bajor's economy because of the money they could make off of DS9, and getting raw natural resources from the G.Q.

Otherwise Bajor was a broken down planet. They had to keep the wormhole open.

It still seems kind of silly, though, how they left their side of the wormhole so lightly defended, even when they knew how aggressive Dominion was being.


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