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Sadara March 18 2013 08:40 PM

Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
In the Ultimate Computer, he knew the M5 was being tested in its abilities to run a starship and yet when things go wrong he assumes Kirk is just having a tantrum instead of considering the possibility that the M5 malfunctioned. Not exactly command material in my opinion.

Relayer1 March 18 2013 08:44 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
TOS is full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes.

In fact most things are full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes...

Redfern March 18 2013 09:00 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Quote:

Relayer1 wrote: (Post 7817086)
TOS is full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes.

In fact most things are full of one dimensional characters behaving irrationally for plot purposes...

I guess that would make Wesley a "plot point". ;)

Thank you; I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

Sincerely,

Bill

C.E. Evans March 18 2013 09:02 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.
:rofl:

But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.

Sadara March 18 2013 09:24 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 7817161)
Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.
:rofl:

But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.

I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.

BillJ March 18 2013 09:46 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Maybe Wesley had been working closely with Daystrom and M-5 and thought it impossible that M-5 malfunctioned? We really aren't privy to what was going on before Kirk arrived and discussions aboard the Lexington once things went south.

T'Girl March 18 2013 10:22 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Wesley knew Kirk had that big ass circuit breaker mounted on the side of his Captain's chair, surely he would have threw it if the M5 started shooting on it's own.

GSchnitzer March 18 2013 10:36 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Quote:

Sadara wrote: (Post 7817074)
In the Ultimate Computer, he knew the M5 was being tested in its abilities to run a starship and yet when things go wrong he assumes Kirk is just having a tantrum instead of considering the possibility that the M5 malfunctioned. Not exactly command material in my opinion.

"The Enterprise refuses to answer and is continuing attack. I still have an effective battle force and believe the only way to stop the Enterprise is to destroy her. Request permission to proceed. Wesley, commanding attack force, out."

I think that whether Kirk had gone mad, or M-5 was malfunctioning, or the Enterprise was suddenly comandeered by magic evil spirts, Wesly's command actions probably needed to be the same no matter what the cause was: with the Enterprise failing to respond and with it blasting the hell out of the four starships, "the only way to stop the Enterprise was to destroy her"--whatever the actual cause had been.

BillJ March 18 2013 10:38 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
It does seem weird that Wesley wouldn't recognize the actions of M-5 during battle. Did he really think that Kirk could slice up four starships that quickly and effectively?

C.E. Evans March 18 2013 11:04 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Quote:

Sadara wrote: (Post 7817284)
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 7817161)
Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.
:rofl:

But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.

I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.

The first part of my comment was a joke (note the smiley).

The second part is what I really think what happened. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch that Kirk could flip if it ever malfunctioned. Wesley didn't know that the M-5 could override its shut-off switch. Heck, Kirk and the gang didn't know it could do that.

Grant March 18 2013 11:20 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Honestly i always thought the same thing. Why couldn't they have given him one measley line to make him seem more 'with-it.'


"Jim, if M-5 is out of control you have to disable it quick or we'll be forced to destroy the enterprise!"

Sadara March 18 2013 11:21 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 7817689)
Quote:

Sadara wrote: (Post 7817284)
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 7817161)
Kirk was so disliked by his peers that Wesley was more willing to believe Kirk had finally went off the deep end than that the M-5 was malfunctioning.
:rofl:

But if I recall correctly, it should have been impossible for Kirk to lose total control of the Enterprise to the M-5 (even in the event of a malfunction), but the computer overrode manual override.

I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.

The first part of my comment was a joke (note the smiley).

The second part is what I really think what happened. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch that Kirk could flip if it ever malfunctioned. Wesley didn't know that the M-5 could override its shut-off switch. Heck, Kirk and the gang didn't know it could do that.

Sure, no one knew that, but it still doesn't make sense to assume that Kirk went nuts rather than the M5. Wesley has known Kirk for years and should know that sort of behavior isn't part of Kirk's character. The M5, sure it did great in simulated tests, but it was still the more unknown variable. Assuming Kirk just freaked out is still more than a stretch.

Sadara March 18 2013 11:23 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Quote:

GSchnitzer wrote: (Post 7817584)
Quote:

Sadara wrote: (Post 7817074)
In the Ultimate Computer, he knew the M5 was being tested in its abilities to run a starship and yet when things go wrong he assumes Kirk is just having a tantrum instead of considering the possibility that the M5 malfunctioned. Not exactly command material in my opinion.

"The Enterprise refuses to answer and is continuing attack. I still have an effective battle force and believe the only way to stop the Enterprise is to destroy her. Request permission to proceed. Wesley, commanding attack force, out."

I think that whether Kirk had gone mad, or M-5 was malfunctioning, or the Enterprise was suddenly comandeered by magic evil spirts, Wesly's command actions probably needed to be the same no matter what the cause was: with the Enterprise failing to respond and with it blasting the hell out of the four starships, "the only way to stop the Enterprise was to destroy her"--whatever the actual cause had been.

I agree that the course of action would likely have remained the same. I'm just questioning Wesley's reasoning as to the cause. He seemed to have more faith in that M5 machine than Kirk apparently.

Sadara March 18 2013 11:24 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Quote:

Grant wrote: (Post 7817728)
Honestly i always thought the same thing. Why couldn't they have given him one measley line to make him seem more 'with-it.'


"Jim, if M-5 is out of control you have to disable it quick or we'll be forced to destroy the enterprise!"

^This.

C.E. Evans March 18 2013 11:45 PM

Re: Commodore Wesley confuses me
 
Quote:

Sadara wrote: (Post 7817734)
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 7817689)
Quote:

Sadara wrote: (Post 7817284)

I guess I overlooked it, but I didn't really sense that Kirk's peers disliked him that much. Even so, assuming someone we don't like went off the deep end just because that's what we're hoping for isn't exactly rational.

The first part of my comment was a joke (note the smiley).

The second part is what I really think what happened. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch that Kirk could flip if it ever malfunctioned. Wesley didn't know that the M-5 could override its shut-off switch. Heck, Kirk and the gang didn't know it could do that.

Sure, no one knew that, but it still doesn't make sense to assume that Kirk went nuts rather than the M5.

Think about it, though. As far as Wesley knew, the M-5 had a shut-off switch in the event of a malfunction, and as such, there was no way that the Enterprise would be attacking other Federation starships unless Kirk was authorizing the M-5 to do so. Nobody (other than perhaps Daystrom) knew that the M-5 could arrange things so that Kirk couldn't turn it off.
Quote:

Wesley has known Kirk for years and should know that sort of behavior isn't part of Kirk's character.
Which may have been the only thing that prevented the Enterprise from being blown to bits once the M-5 deactivated itself.
Quote:

The M5, sure it did great in simulated tests, but it was still the more unknown variable. Assuming Kirk just freaked out is still more than a stretch.
Not necessarily, because people have snapped before with powerful weapons at their disposal.


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