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-   -   Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been stronge (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=205969)

WesleysDisciple March 13 2013 12:20 AM

Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been stronge
 
I keep thinking the episode would have been stronger if kurn had physically died, then if hed had his memories deleted and become a new person.

For one thing it seemed to be trying to avoid ticking some right wingers with anti suicide stances.

Iliana Malek March 13 2013 03:09 AM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
I think it would have been a more interesting ending. It seems to me that the Klingons, at least initially (TOS and the original films)were somewhat modeled on Samurai culture, though they seemed to lose that as later series elaborated on the culture. Suicide over disgrace/dishonor would have tied into the Klingon as Space Samurai model nicely.

JirinPanthosa March 13 2013 04:06 AM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
Anything would have been better than the ending we got.

I would have rather he found a glorious battle to die in.

LiLiKitty March 13 2013 08:05 PM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
Quote:

JirinPanthosa wrote: (Post 7794769)
Anything would have been better than the ending we got.

I would have rather he found a glorious battle to die in.

I agree entirely. Wiping Kurn's memory was one of worst ideas of DS9.

Worf'sParmach March 17 2013 06:18 AM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
Quote:

WesleysDisciple wrote: (Post 7793653)
I keep thinking the episode would have been stronger if kurn had physically died, then if hed had his memories deleted and become a new person.

For one thing it seemed to be trying to avoid ticking some right wingers with anti suicide stances.

Though i agree that an actual death would have been much better, I doubt it had anything to do with upsetting right-wingers.

That or he should have come back later on. It was such a bad end to such a great character.

Anwar March 17 2013 09:28 PM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
Even worse that Worf never even thinks about the guy when Worf got his honor back.

You know, how he ultimately destroyed Kurn for nothing?

JarodRussell March 17 2013 11:46 PM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
Quote:

Anwar wrote: (Post 7813459)
Even worse that Worf never even thinks about the guy when Worf got his honor back.

You know, how he ultimately destroyed Kurn for nothing?

Either way it would have been for nothing. Kurn was being a whiney little bitch about the whole honor thing. Had he waited a year, they would have both got their honor back. No need for suicides or mind wipes or shit.

Timo March 18 2013 10:05 AM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
In "A Matter of Honor", Klag similarly suffered from a dishonorable kinsman, but unlike Kurn, he certainly didn't wallow in despair. Then again, Klag only had a dishonorable father - Kurn and Worf suffered from a collective debasement of the entire House of Mogh. Apparently, being captured alive was less of a crime than selling out an entire planet to Romulans, so the punishment was narrower in scope, too.

In any case, Worf generally benefited as a character whenever he was a badass or an alien, i.e. when he murdered or insulted or cheated or stonewalled where a human would have showed compassion. Trying out all the possible options and then, just before end credits, nevertheless sending Kurn to Sto-vo-kor would probably have worked out very well indeed. Especially if all the clever and humane machinations of the rest of the characters were setting up a happy ending for Kurn, but they also made it possible for Worf to give Kurn an especially honorable end.

Say, perhaps Kurn was going to be memory-wiped and sent to a safe fate A - but Worf took advantage of this and derailed Kurn to a glorious fate B, perhaps a suicide mission under "false" identity or something.

Timo Saloniemi

teacake March 18 2013 12:13 PM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
Quote:

Anwar wrote: (Post 7813459)
Even worse that Worf never even thinks about the guy when Worf got his honor back.

You know, how he ultimately destroyed Kurn for nothing?

I always think about that.

Klingons :rolleyes:

Anwar March 18 2013 04:46 PM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
Why didn't the writers bring back Tony Todd after Worf got his Honor back with Martok and just have it turn out Bashir's mindwipe wasn't successful?

SoM March 19 2013 01:17 AM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
Quote:

Anwar wrote: (Post 7813459)
Even worse that Worf never even thinks about the guy when Worf got his honor back.

You know, how he ultimately destroyed Kurn for nothing?

Here's the thing - Worf may have, personally, been better off through Martok admitting him to his own house - but the House of Mogh and everyone else in it were still destitute and dishonoured thanks to Gowron.

Quote:

Anwar wrote: (Post 7816174)
Why didn't the writers bring back Tony Todd after Worf got his Honor back with Martok and just have it turn out Bashir's mindwipe wasn't successful?

Because it would have been a cop-out?

Anwar March 19 2013 08:02 AM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
Quote:

SoM wrote: (Post 7818253)
Here's the thing - Worf may have, personally, been better off through Martok admitting him to his own house - but the House of Mogh and everyone else in it were still destitute and dishonoured thanks to Gowron.

So get Kurn to join like Alexander did.

Quote:

Because it would have been a cop-out?
And wiping out Kurn's memory, for what turned out to be nothing, wasn't major character assassination for Worf?

Bry_Sinclair March 19 2013 09:48 AM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
Quote:

Anwar wrote: (Post 7816174)
Why didn't the writers bring back Tony Todd after Worf got his Honor back with Martok and just have it turn out Bashir's mindwipe wasn't successful?

Given the cop out ending we got, I always had the feeling that Kurn was intended to return at some point. Given the war and all the Klingons at the station its surprising they never had a chance encounter between brothers.

Worf'sParmach March 19 2013 06:18 PM

Re: Would worf actually physically, killing his brother, have been str
 
Quote:

Anwar wrote: (Post 7819306)
So get Kurn to join like Alexander did.

That might not have been as easy as it seems. Martok asked Worf to join his house because Worf saved him on more than one occaision. And when he asked him, he thought Worf was alone, he didn't even know about Alexander. Asking Worf to join his house does not automatically mean everyone related to him gets to join. It's like if you invite a friend to come over and they show up with a bunch of other people you didn't even know about.

Quote:

Bry_Sinclair wrote: (Post 7819429)
Given the cop out ending we got, I always had the feeling that Kurn was intended to return at some point. Given the war and all the Klingons at the station its surprising they never had a chance encounter between brothers.

I felt the same way. I just knew we'd see Kurn again and this would ge "fixed" somehow. Klingons are supposed to have super strong, redundant physiologies that heal quickly so what's to say that Bashir's mind wipe would actually stick, you know?


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