The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Battlestar Galactica & Caprica (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29)
-   -   The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons. (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=205675)

Guy Gardener March 10 2013 09:07 AM

The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
Gods = Generation 1 Cylons.

Man = Generation 2 Cylons.

Cylons = Generation 3 Cylons.

It's not me imagining shit right, but I figured this out half way through season one when they explained Kobol, but it was never really confirmed as a fact thereafter.

CorporalCaptain March 10 2013 09:10 AM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
Where do the head messengers of Baltar and Six fit in on your scale? Generation 1.5?

And does that make modern Mankind on Earth generation 4 on your scale?

Guy Gardener March 10 2013 09:30 AM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
Zoey Greystone was the god the head messengers worked for.

Zoey was the first generation 3. The worker drones through to the liberated Centurians insisting on equal rights, and onward to as many stages of their evolution, which were the bulk of generation 3, and then the skin jobs were generation 4.

There must have been a cision between Zoey and the Centurians over how to establish their freedom from human oppression before or after the Final five arrived from Kobol at siblight speed with a way out.

So the messengers are the immediate creations of Zoey which makes them precursors or distinctly parallel to the Centurian expansion and rebellion.

3.0a

But this is all just logical deduction you already know in your heart to be true.

DalekJim March 10 2013 02:59 PM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
Kinda hard to apply logic to deus ex machina narrative devices. Especially as the series ends with a confirmation of monotheism, with Head Baltar (*sigh*) referring to the one true God as "He".

Agent Richard07 March 10 2013 03:08 PM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
^ There was no confirmation of monotheism. It was simply implied that there was something else out there at work. And didn't Head Baltar say "It doesn't like to be called that."?

Guy Gardener March 10 2013 03:31 PM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
Google says "It" but I was sure it was a "she" as of 12 seconds ago, which is why I assumed for the last couple years that Zoe was God.

DalekJim March 10 2013 04:46 PM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
Well, I was still right in that "It" insinuates a single God. I don't like to think about that finale too much. I get Vietnam style flashbacks.

Ancient Mariner March 10 2013 04:57 PM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
Whenever I think about the finale I have flashbacks to drunken debauchery at a strip club and trying to swat a trapped pigeon with a broom. But my therapist says I shouldn't worry about it.

Guy Gardener March 11 2013 01:19 AM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
Quote:

DalekJim wrote: (Post 7783399)
Well, I was still right in that "It" insinuates a single God. I don't like to think about that finale too much. I get Vietnam style flashbacks.

Do you know what mummery is?

Behind God's curtain there's one frack who is a singular intelligence who master-minded (master-mound?) everything we saw from the Opera House to All Along the Watch Tower and on.

The singular God who engineered the exodus is "someone" from the cast of Caprica who ascended to silicone heaven and was the prime mover of the Generation 3 Cylons moving the humans and droids alike like chess pieces subtly.

I assumed it was Zoe because she was first and most powerful, but that doesn't mean that she survived to these latter days. Especially when it was Clarice or Lacy who really got balls deep into religion and montheism.

The Gods of Kobol, died on Kobol and have nothing to do with nothing about the story we saw or the scheming that had the head messengers farting around plotting a better definition of humanity.

Dude!

It's not a victory to recognize that what was said overtly in the script plain as day many, many, many times is the unobscuring of some sort of National Treasure level hidden widget talisman key to the secret of the universe.

Robert Maxwell March 11 2013 05:28 PM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
The Final Five all got prophetic visions on Earth, though, which certainly predated Zoe.

Opus March 11 2013 05:45 PM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
It was my impression humans created A.I. on Kobol, and those Cylons also rebelled and caused the twelve tribes of humans to migrate to The Colonies and the Cylons to earth.

The Evil Dead March 11 2013 09:45 PM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
In my head God in the world of Battlestar Galactica was a Cylon created by a civilization predating even Kobol who had evolved beyond corporeal form.

Cavil says "I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to — I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more, I could experience so much more, but I’m trapped in this absurd body."

God was a Cylon that achieved Cavil's dream.

This Cylon (God) seeks to end the cycle it has seen occur over and over again and takes steps throughout the series to make sure this is the end.

Mister Fandango March 12 2013 01:12 AM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
Yeah, the big problem with the theory is that BSG was, at best, the second go-round of the phenomenon, and heavily implied that it's been going on and on for some time. That would mean the humans of BSG and Caprica were, again at best, ''4th generation cylons'' going by your logic. And that completely negates Zoey as God. Unless you assume Caprica was a really, really early prequel measured in thousands of years, and all the familiar names and places were just a massive coincidence.

Guy Gardener March 12 2013 01:37 AM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
Quote:

Robert Maxwell wrote: (Post 7787137)
The Final Five all got prophetic visions on Earth, though, which certainly predated Zoe.

The final 5 are Generation One Cylons from Earth, which means that they were also "related" to the Cylons from Kobol who created man. Their hardware seriously predates Zoe but perhaps not their software. The final 5 arrived in 12 colonies space, ended the War by handing over skin job technology, and the Generation threes wandered off, building generation 4s who then mentally castrated all the generation 3s to guarantee their dominance.

The problem is that the Final 5 didn't want to go with the generation 3s who tried to kill mankind, or the Generation 4s who enslaved the generation 3s, off into deep space... And the final 5 were all very sad. The final 5 were so damn sad because they were not the final 5 of the 12 cylon models, they were the final 5 of a species of billion of Generation ones from Earth. So sad that they lobotomised themselves rather than revel in their survivors guilt misery, digging into their minds and ripped out their storied identities as machines until they could live happily ever after as stoopid human beings with the stoopid humans(which might have been their price? Skin job technology in exchange for a home with the humans which is the only reason the generation 3s didn't finish off the generation 2s?) But just because the final five wanted to be happy, it doesn't mean that they were stupid enough to leave themselves defenceless if happiness began to elude them.

What you call "prophecy" I say was either a defence mechanism trigger the final 5 themselves put in place to wake up if everything went to shit, unless the programming was from "God" who might have been Zoe, strung into their new identities 40 years earlier when they built these new bodies and abbreviated personalties for the final 5 as part of whatever brief alliance they had been apart of before they all split up and headed off in different directions.

Quote:

OphaClyde wrote: (Post 7787176)
It was my impression humans created A.I. on Kobol, and those Cylons also rebelled and caused the twelve tribes of humans to migrate to The Colonies and the Cylons to earth.

The Gods of Kobol invented Man. We take this to be true. The Gods of Kobol happened to be Cylons. We know this to be true. Surely that means that the Cylons came first and man is just a different kind of Cylon, who is too arrogant to accept that they are AI too?

theenglish March 12 2013 05:24 AM

Re: The Gods created Man, Man created the Cylons.
 
The ending would have fit a little more nicely if Adama ordered all tech destroyed and they arrived on earth just a few thousand years ago. This would have played into the "it all happens" again theme.

Basically, a sentient life form gains enough knowledge to create AI and eventually wipes itself out only to have the same thing happen to the next generation of sentient life forms. Is this what you mean by Gen 1, Gen 2, etc?


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:17 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.