The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Deep Space Nine (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40)
-   -   Thoughts on "Valiant"? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=205537)

WesleysDisciple March 9 2013 02:00 AM

Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Curious anything thats not been said.

We all know that The "Captain" Is a wacko.

Any other observations.

I think that Nog got tossed the idiot ball, and holds it till the last 5 minutes, when shoves it at the dieing girl who holds it till the end of the episode.

Pavonis March 9 2013 02:44 AM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Nog was not tossed the "idiot ball"; he'd always wanted to join Red Squad. He finally got to see the Red Squad cult up close, though, and finally learned a lesson - that they were overconfident and reckless. Chief Collins was involved with the cult longer than Nog, though, so would naturally be more reluctant to change her view of it. She likely spent a good deal of time in therapy to remove her brainwashing, or at least, exchange it for a different brainwashing.

-Brett- March 9 2013 02:53 AM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Quote:

WesleysDisciple wrote: (Post 7778239)
Curious anything thats not been said.

Close to 15 years after the episode aired? Probably not.

Bry_Sinclair March 9 2013 07:31 AM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Jake bothers me in the episode. He drops his dad's name thinking that gives him the final word in Starfleet tactical combat, whilst also having an opportunity to observe and report back on a crew who have lasted for months alone behind enemy lines, he goes in a huff and starts trying to undermine the Captain.

Nog is guilty of heroworship of the Red Squad, but he comes to his senses (admittedly a little late), but he is barely an ensign with his head still swimming with what he was taught at the Academy, so he would follow the chain of command.

As for the cadets themselves, I quite like them. Watters clearly has potential, though in need of a lot more experience, he does seem like an alright kinda guy. Farris is Shelby's mini-me, but does show a softer side in dealing with Watters. Shepard doesn't have much development but definately comes across as the cocky one on the crew. As for Dorian Collins, I really like her, its a shame they never had her return (possibly as a small recurring role on DS9 in S7, maybe a romantic angle for Nog). We did see Vulcans and Trill in the crew, shame there were no aliens with speaking parts though.

DS9forever March 9 2013 02:14 PM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Its just slightly more plausible than Star Trek 2009. I don't really understand why Nog immediately defers to the cadets, given that he is an ensign by this stage in the series. The episode had neat special effects though.

Bry_Sinclair March 9 2013 03:54 PM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Watters was technically a Captain, given the battlefield commission by his predecessor. Though he may wear a cadets uniform the rank would hold.

In the beginning, Nog does appear a little uncertain about the structure, but after being (essentially) bribed he takes his place.

Mr. Laser Beam March 9 2013 04:00 PM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Quote:

DS9forever wrote: (Post 7779589)
I don't really understand why Nog immediately defers to the cadets, given that he is an ensign

IIRC, Nog's commission was no more "real" than those cadets were. He was given a field promotion, just like they were. Indeed, it could be argued that the cadets - since they had completed some Academy training and Nog hadn't yet - were more entitled to command than he was.

Or, conversely, Nog could have just thought that he didn't dare pull rank on them because he was outnumbered. There were dozens of cadets, but only one of him. If he doesn't do what they say, they'll throw him in the brig regardless of how legit his rank was.

As for the episode in general: Agreed that Red Squad were arrogant and reckless and full of themselves, but I'm sure the Klingons would have loved it - the Valiant crew died in battle against a superior enemy. That's the way all Klingons want to go. They probably sang songs about that crew.

Photon March 9 2013 06:27 PM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Quote:

WesleysDisciple wrote: (Post 7778239)
Curious anything thats not been said.

We all know that The "Captain" Is a wacko.

Any other observations.

I think that Nog got tossed the idiot ball, and holds it till the last 5 minutes, when shoves it at the dieing girl who holds it till the ned of hte peiosde.

Sumbutee els gut toszed the edeeuht ball, spuhlling-lee chllenged

WesleysDisciple March 9 2013 07:06 PM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
HEre what really vexed me on the Crew.

they COMPLETED the assigned mission... they could have gone home, and been safe and been thanked for bringing the intel, instead they decided, to go for Glory and power...

Even the VULCANS seemed smug.

LobsterAfternoon March 10 2013 12:56 AM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Wait, Nog has a battlefield commission? I thought he just had an abbreviated time at the Academy due to the demands of the war.

Pavonis March 10 2013 02:48 AM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
I'm certain that Nog's commission was issued formally from the Command and/or the Academy. It was a sign of how bad things were going!

Marcus Porcius Cato March 10 2013 03:55 AM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
I've often felt that when watched in serial with other TNG and DS9 academy episodes, which really culminates with this one, we see the less attractive side of the Starfleet. The arrogance and the fanaticism which would be seasoned out in assignments in Starships,etc are still evident in Valiant crew. Too bad they were cut off from the leavening influence of officers and developed their sense of elitism.

These guys were spoiled goods even if they came back in one piece.

Sadara March 10 2013 04:25 AM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Quote:

Bry_Sinclair wrote: (Post 7779043)
Jake bothers me in the episode. He drops his dad's name thinking that gives him the final word in Starfleet tactical combat, whilst also having an opportunity to observe and report back on a crew who have lasted for months alone behind enemy lines, he goes in a huff and starts trying to undermine the Captain.

Watters was horribly misguided, fool of himself, and a tyrant. Seriously, homesickness isn't allowed? Jake was the only sane one of the bunch. I was surprised and disappointed that he didn't try to get a message out to his dad or Starfleet letting them know these numbskulls were still alive and doing their own thing.

CrazyMatt March 10 2013 09:34 AM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Excellent episode, well written (of course) by Ron Moore, and a shockingly and appropriately disturbing ending... kids way over their heads eventually losing them. My only quibble is how hokey is it that only one escape pod survives and it just happens to have Jake and Nog in it? Still, one of my favs of the series.

CrazyMatt March 10 2013 09:35 AM

Re: Thoughts on "Valiant"?
 
Also, great finally seeing another Defiant class starship in action.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:58 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.