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-   -   How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=205168)

Infern0 March 5 2013 02:19 AM

How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
I am assuming that they assimilated Transwarp from Arturis' people and did not have it during B.O.B.W.

So how were they able to move around the galaxy so fast?

Even if we assume the Ship from Q Who is the same one in B.O.B.W, they still got from J25 to earth in incredibly impressive time with no transwarp capability, 10,000 light years in around a year.

The Wormhole March 5 2013 02:28 AM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
The Borg had transwarp at least ten years prior to Q Who, according to Voyager. Dark Fontier establishes this.

But even if we don't want to accept this, presumably they could have used one of those subspace corridor thingies from Descent. After all, it transported the Enterprise and Lore's Borg ship to the Delta Quadrant and back again.

C.E. Evans March 5 2013 02:43 AM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
I think the Borg's transwarp hub system is somewhat unreliable, with perhaps some parts of the Galaxy (like the Alpha Quadrant) accessible for only a certain period of time if transwarp corridors are natural subspace phenomena that appear and then disappear after awhile.

Devo March 5 2013 08:10 AM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 7761088)
The Borg had transwarp at least ten years prior to Q Who, according to Voyager. Dark Fontier establishes this.

But even if we don't want to accept this, presumably they could have used one of those subspace corridor thingies from Descent. After all, it transported the Enterprise and Lore's Borg ship to the Delta Quadrant and back again.

Hang on, I thought that transwarp conduit only had a distance of 65 light years? At least that what Riker says.

Christopher March 5 2013 09:42 AM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
Quote:

Infern0 wrote: (Post 7761040)
I am assuming that they assimilated Transwarp from Arturis' people and did not have it during B.O.B.W.

You're confusing two different propulsion systems. Arturis's people used quantum slipstream drive.

We know that the Borg already had transwarp as early as 2353, when the Hansens followed a Borg cube through a transwarp corridor to the Delta Quadrant, as seen in "Dark Frontier."

The Wormhole March 5 2013 02:45 PM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
Quote:

Devo wrote: (Post 7762159)
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 7761088)
The Borg had transwarp at least ten years prior to Q Who, according to Voyager. Dark Fontier establishes this.

But even if we don't want to accept this, presumably they could have used one of those subspace corridor thingies from Descent. After all, it transported the Enterprise and Lore's Borg ship to the Delta Quadrant and back again.

Hang on, I thought that transwarp conduit only had a distance of 65 light years? At least that what Riker says.

This computer display from Descent makes it clear they're in the Delta Quadrant.

at Quark's March 5 2013 06:04 PM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
It would be very unlikely that the Borg, having conquered as large a territory as they have, having assimilated thousands of species, and being so old, would only have acquired transwarp in those last few years.

Before it became evident they used conduits, I simply assumed they had warp capability significantly more advanced than that of the federation. For all we know, that still could be the case, I don't think I can remember any reference to a cube's conventional 'top speed' :)

Timo March 5 2013 06:46 PM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
Quote:

Hang on, I thought that transwarp conduit only had a distance of 65 light years? At least that what Riker says.
Quote:

This computer display from Descent makes it clear they're in the Delta Quadrant.
And the reason for the confusion is that our heroes made two trips along that fancy conduit before reaching Lore's lair. At first, they are caught in the conduit in the wake of the Borg vessel, try to fight it, and return to normal space somewhat haphazardly, somewhere in the Delta Quadrant. They then fight the Borg, and lick their wounds, and LaForge shows the above diagram and tries to explain what happened. Then the Borg again appear and use the conduit, and Data escapes in a shuttle; when the heroes follow the shuttle by goading the conduit open all by themselves, that trip takes them 65 lightyears further into the Delta Quadrant.

Probably the conduit system was just as "nonstandard" as the fancy-looking ship of the renegade Borg: the creation of a deranged (hive) mind, grotesquely and somewhat inefficiently imitating the achievements of the regular Collective.

Timo Saloniemi

Phily B March 5 2013 06:53 PM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
I thought Borg ships just had way faster warp speed than the Feds.

Devo March 5 2013 10:56 PM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
Thank you for enlightening me, Timo.

Now then, the question remaining is where the Borg got their transwarp technology to begin with. From which race was it assimilated? Or did the Borg create it themselves (unlikely as that is, since the Borg have no imagination, poor bastards)?

Christopher March 6 2013 01:26 AM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
Everything the Borg have is assimilated from somebody. They've been expanding through the galaxy for thousands of years, so they've accumulated a lot of tech -- and since their territory is in the Delta Quadrant, they've no doubt assimilated and destroyed countless civilizations we've never heard of and never will.

Although we know from "Dragon's Teeth" that the Borg only controlled a few systems as of the year 1484, which suggests their assimilation of transwarp occurred somewhat later.

Anwar March 6 2013 05:49 AM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
That's assuming the Vadwaar encountered something more than just some new expansion of the Borg all those centuries ago. Because it doesn't mesh with Q talking about the Borg existing for thousands of centuries.

Timo March 6 2013 11:01 AM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
The Vaadwaur might have been simply ignorant of the true extent of the Borg empire - or then factually quite correct. After all, the Borg aren't known for their "control of systems". They live in the depths of empty space, they skulk around, they assimilate, and they disappear again. Planets are probably just "consumed" in the process, and any physical occupation thereof is a brief one, a few centuries at most.

Timo Saloniemi

The Librarian March 6 2013 01:05 PM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
Keep in mind that there was a Borg cube skulking around the Neutral Zone in late TNG Season 1. Also, 10,000 light-years isn't that far to cover if you can sustain high warp speeds indefinitely.

Timo March 6 2013 02:59 PM

Re: How did the Borg get to earth, before they got Transwarp?
 
Quote:

Keep in mind that there was a Borg cube skulking around the Neutral Zone in late TNG Season 1.
Quite so. The idea that the ship in "BoBW" would have reached the Federation at impossibly high speeds comes from Data's assertion that the dimensions of the ship in the episode are exactly the same as those of the ship previously encountered in "Q Who?", approximately 7,000 ly away from the Federation. And Data might have been wrong.

Or, more probably, Borg Cubes come in standard sizes even if individual ships can be identified by their details. And the details might change with time, as the ships repair themselves or improve themselves. So the ship that scooped up the Jouret colony may not have been the one that offed J-25 previously. And it may or may not be the same that destroyed the RNZ outposts.

Timo Saloniemi


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