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-   -   Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captain"? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=204865)

indolover March 1 2013 03:50 AM

Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captain"?
 
Sisko once said that to Worf on DS9, but would Picard have agreed?

heavy lids March 1 2013 04:09 AM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
No.

Dream March 1 2013 04:10 AM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
Didn't Worf let millions die just to save Jadzia in "Change of Heart"?

Sigokat March 1 2013 11:35 AM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
I agree with Heavy Lids. I don't think Picard would have said that I don't think Worf wuold have made a good Captain either.

Bry_Sinclair March 1 2013 12:18 PM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
Because Worf opted to save one instead of millions, Sisko told him that his career was pretty much dead, which makes his becoming an Ambassador a sensible career choice.

Merlanthe March 1 2013 01:58 PM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
I dont think the op was asking whether Worf would have become a captain but whether, at anypoint in the trek timeline, Picard might have shared Sisko's opinion that Worf would make a good captain.

Imho i dont think Picard would have thought of Worf as captain material during his time on the Enterprise. He was firmly in the security career track and although he was shown as being a younger officer still learning things and gradually being given more responsibility as the series went on it never seemed like the other characters expected him to ever rise above the role of security chief. During magic meeting room meetings his opinions/suggestings on how to handle the crisis of the week were nearly always immediately shot down by Picard or another staff spoke out against it even when no one else had a better idea. Combined with how the other staff seemed to like lecturing him on how he should embrace enlightened federation ideals more and adhere less to his violent klingon ideals it came accross imho as though they were holding him back from being his true self and this limited his potential.

I think Sisko was more openminded and more easily saw the potential in Worf, and in all of his staff, perhaps because of the way his own career went and also the shared situation of considering leaving starfleet made him see himself in Worf. Imho it always seemed like Worf was more accepted for he was and allowed to be himself on DS9 than on TNG. Maybe if Picard had visited DS9 and saw Worf doing successfully in the command track he could have had a 'Worf is doing great in the command track why did i never see his potential before now?' moment.

Lance March 1 2013 10:38 PM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
On the other hand, Picard does put him in charge of the saucer section in "Farpoint" (over Worf's own objections).

Trekker4747 March 1 2013 11:02 PM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
Worf was too hot-headed to be a Federation captain. Ignoring the Dominion War and how it changed the "tone" of the Federation and Trek (one of my many problems with DS9) Worf would not have been a good fit to command a starship on a mission to explore space and make peaceful contact with new civilizations. Nor would he be good to negotiate treaties or find diplomatic solutions to problems. Worf would have been a terrible Starfleet captain. He would've started a war on his first mission in command. Or he'd be too fearful and antsy of unknown to take the risks needed to truly be an explorer.

Worf'sParmach March 1 2013 11:09 PM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
No, I don't think Picard would have thought that. And as we saw, even Sisko had to essentially rescend that statement.

And as much as I love the guy, I don't think Worf would be a good Starfleet captain. He's a good right-hand man, and he'll always have your back, but he's not Captain material.

I think the role of Klingon Ambassador was perfect for him and I'm sorry the post-Nemesis fiction took that away.

Dream March 2 2013 12:08 AM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
Worf is great when you need some muscle or some problem that needs to be dealt with like Duras or Gowron, but I think he would have problems as Captain. He has issues seeing the big picture. Not everyone needs to be captain anyway.

But he certainly has come a long way from the brainless brute he was in TNG's first season.

JirinPanthosa March 2 2013 01:34 AM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
I think with 10-20 years more of added maturity he would have made a good captain.

But we've seen what happens when Worf made command decisions in his TNG/DS9 tenures. Rules of Engagement is another case, he is such an emotional, instinctual decision maker he loses sight of the big picture in the moment.

indolover March 3 2013 02:13 AM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
Quote:

Dream wrote: (Post 7746457)
Didn't Worf let millions die just to save Jadzia in "Change of Heart"?

Considering it was his wife, I think slack should be cut. Even Sisko said he would have done the same thing. I can't imagine a man, unless he were some psychopath, abandoning his wife and letting her die.

indolover March 3 2013 02:27 AM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
Quote:

JirinPanthosa wrote: (Post 7750045)
I think with 10-20 years more of added maturity he would have made a good captain.

But we've seen what happens when Worf made command decisions in his TNG/DS9 tenures. Rules of Engagement is another case, he is such an emotional, instinctual decision maker he loses sight of the big picture in the moment.

Yet Sisko actually said he'd make a good captain when dressing him down after the extradition hearing in Rules of Engagement. Even Picard wanted revenge against the Borg in First Contact and most likely would have got everybody on board killed or assimilated had he gone through with his plan.

Dream March 3 2013 02:32 AM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
Quote:

indolover wrote: (Post 7753423)
Quote:

Dream wrote: (Post 7746457)
Didn't Worf let millions die just to save Jadzia in "Change of Heart"?

Considering it was his wife, I think slack should be cut. Even Sisko said he would have done the same thing. I can't imagine a man, unless he were some psychopath, abandoning his wife and letting her die.

I understand why he did it, but thinking about the number of deaths is still staggering.

Reminds me of when Riker DIDN'T abandon the planet the Enterprise was trying to save in "Final Mission", to search for Picard and Wesley's crashed shuttlecraft. He wasn't even ordered to help the planet.

But Starfleet were idiots sending a husband a wife together on such an important mission. Even real life military today doesn't do it because it is such a bad idea.

at Quark's March 3 2013 09:45 AM

Re: Would Picard have thought Worf would have made a "hell of a Captai
 
I just re-watched that ep ("Change of heart"), because of this thread.

It occurred to me that, had this been a TNG ep, the ending would probably have been very different (Picard dressing down Worf in a long speech about how Starfleet Duty comes before everything else, how disappointed he was in Worf, etc).


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