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TrickyDickie February 25 2013 07:18 PM

Does anyone remember this?
 
This has been nagging at me since last night. I hadn't watched 'The Mark of Gideon' in a long time and it was one of the episodes that I had seen the least number of times over the years. I thought I remembered how it ended, but I was way off, so what I am remembering must come from a different story....somewhere:

Captain Kirk was in a short but deeply heartfelt relationship with a woman who then died. It affected him so deeply that Spock and McCoy got together and decided that the best thing to do was to use the Vulcan mind meld to erase all memory of her from Kirk's mind....at a time when Kirk would not be aware of what Spock was doing. And they would also take the step of altering the Enterprise's memory banks as well, to remove all trace of her so that Kirk would not find out anything about her by accident.

At the time, I recall thinking that such a plan on their part seemed out of character and quite a stretch. And it also didn't seem all that likely that Kirk would suddenly more or less fall to pieces after having made it through other personal tragedies in reasonably good shape.

I know this was not 'The Paradise Syndrome' or 'The City on the Edge of Forever' and the more I think about it, the more I feel that it may have been in one of the novels or short stories.

Does it ring a bell with anyone?

BillJ February 25 2013 07:19 PM

Re: Does anyone remember this?
 
Quote:

TrickyDickie wrote: (Post 7730593)

Captain Kirk was in a short but deeply heartfelt relationship with a woman who then died. It affected him so deeply that Spock and McCoy got together and decided that the best thing to do was to use the Vulcan mind meld to erase all memory of her from Kirk's mind....at a time when Kirk would not be aware of what Spock was doing.

This part is in Requiem For Methuselah.

Quote:

Requiem For Methuselah wrote:
MCCOY: Well, I guess that's all. I can tell Jim later or you can. Considering his opponent's longevity, truly an eternal triangle. You wouldn't understand that, would you, Spock? You see, I feel sorrier for you than I do for him because you'll never know the things that love can drive a man to. The ecstasies, the miseries, the broken rules, the desperate chances, the glorious failures, the glorious victories. All of these things you'll never know simply because the word love isn't written into your book. Goodnight, Spock.
SPOCK: Goodnight, Doctor.
MCCOY: I do wish he could forget her.
(McCoy leaves. Spock goes over to Kirk and initiates a mind meld)
SPOCK: Forget.


Paris February 25 2013 08:07 PM

Re: Does anyone remember this?
 
Sounds like another instance of Spock Mind Rape. Did Kirk ask for this?

Christopher February 25 2013 08:34 PM

Re: Does anyone remember this?
 
Quote:

TrickyDickie wrote: (Post 7730593)
Captain Kirk was in a short but deeply heartfelt relationship with a woman who then died. It affected him so deeply that Spock and McCoy got together and decided that the best thing to do was to use the Vulcan mind meld to erase all memory of her from Kirk's mind....at a time when Kirk would not be aware of what Spock was doing. And they would also take the step of altering the Enterprise's memory banks as well, to remove all trace of her so that Kirk would not find out anything about her by accident.

Not quite. As the passage quoted above shows, the mind meld in "Requiem for Methuselah" was entirely Spock's unilateral decision, even if McCoy did inadvertently give him the idea. And there's nothing about altering the memory banks.

It's also quite ambiguous about what "Forget" meant, since it was the last line of the episode and of course there was no followup. We don't know for a fact that Spock actually erased all memory of Rayna. He could've just meant to help Kirk "forget" the intensity of the pain he felt. I'm reminded of the research in real life pertaining to drugs that can prevent post-traumatic stress by affecting the formation of negative memories. They wouldn't really remove the memory of traumatic events so much as soften it, make it less overpowering. You'd still remember the overall experience, but the bad parts would be vaguer, easier to move beyond.

There is an old Trek novel called Cry of the Onlies that brought back Flint and did assert that Spock had repressed Kirk's memories of Rayna altogether, but as far as I can tell from the samples in Google Books, there's nothing there about the ship's databanks being altered. Which makes it rather less credible, since surely Kirk would review the mission logs afterward and would notice if they mentioned the existence of a woman he didn't remember encountering. Which supports the idea that Spock just made Kirk forget the depth of his feelings rather than her very existence.

TrickyDickie February 25 2013 11:35 PM

Re: Does anyone remember this?
 
Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. Req. is another episode that I have not seen in a long time and not very often over the years. It's also been a long time since I read 'Cry' and that was only once when it first came out. Time to revisit both. :techman:

T'Bonz February 26 2013 04:39 AM

Re: Does anyone remember this?
 
TOS forum.

Redfern February 26 2013 03:37 PM

Re: Does anyone remember this?
 
Quote:

T'Bonz wrote: (Post 7733254)
TOS forum.

Why, yes, I believe it is.

Sincerely,

Bill

Garrovick February 26 2013 03:47 PM

Re: Does anyone remember this?
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 7731001)
There is an old Trek novel called Cry of the Onlies that brought back Flint and did assert that Spock had repressed Kirk's memories of Rayna altogether, but as far as I can tell from the samples in Google Books, there's nothing there about the ship's databanks being altered. Which makes it rather less credible, since surely Kirk would review the mission logs afterward and would notice if they mentioned the existence of a woman he didn't remember encountering. Which supports the idea that Spock just made Kirk forget the depth of his feelings rather than her very existence.

I recently re-read that novel and you're correct that there was nothing mentioned about the logs being altered - plus McCoy still remembered the whole thing. When Kirk encountered Flint in the novel, he experienced feelings of anger towards Flint, but he didn't understand why since he didn't remember anything about Rayna at all. Flint, of course, still remembered the whole thing and was rather upset at Kirk since, not knowing what Spock had done, Flint thought that Kirk was "playing ignorant" about the whole thing. All of which forced Spock to come clean and explain to Kirk what he had done.

T'Bonz February 27 2013 05:23 AM

Re: Does anyone remember this?
 
It was originally in the Trek Lit forum.

Quote:

Redfern wrote: (Post 7734280)
Quote:

T'Bonz wrote: (Post 7733254)
TOS forum.

Why, yes, I believe it is.

Sincerely,

Bill



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