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-   -   Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War?? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=204373)

los2188 February 24 2013 06:36 AM

Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
I'm just curious. I've heard it mentioned once before, but I never actually read any serious discussions about this, but should Insurrection have been something involving the Dominion War? Maybe a movie meant to close the Dominion War. Possibily brining in a few DS9 characters to finish the war? I can't say that I would have been for that direction at the time the movie was released because I wasn't in to DS9, but hind-sight being 20/20, now I would have LOVED to have seen it. What does anyone else think? I apologize if this thread has been discussed.

22 Stars February 24 2013 07:06 AM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
Yes

Gaith February 24 2013 07:42 AM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
1) The general public, including the masses who helped make TNG one of the most popular shows of its time, didn't watch DS9, and had no clue what the Dominion War was.

2) Paramount didn't allow for big Trek movie budgets.

3) It'd have been very difficult to align a feature, which can take years to produce, with a series churning out sixteen or so hours of content (not counting commercials and credits) every year.

Lance February 24 2013 11:18 AM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
Quote:

Gaith wrote: (Post 7723552)
The general public, including the masses who helped make TNG one of the most popular shows of its time, didn't watch DS9, and had no clue what the Dominion War was.

It'd have been very difficult to align a feature, which can take years to produce, with a series churning out sixteen or so hours of content (not counting commercials and credits) every year.

I agree. Add to this that the wider world hadn't necessarily caught up to the USA in terms of DS9 broadcasts, and the ongoing Dominion conflict might have made for quite a confusing story on it's own. Some international markets were still only up to DS9 seasons three and four at the time.

King Daniel Into Darkness February 24 2013 12:35 PM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
Movies need big audience to succeed. Finishing off a DS9 plotline in a film would have been a very bad idea, since DS9 was heavily serialized and most of the casual moviegoing public wouldn't have a clue whats going on. And if you retell the story and details of the war in the movie so as not to alienate moviegoers and then win it, you render the entirely of the Deep Space Nine series pointless!

The alternative, telling a random disposable standalone "side story" set during the war while DS9 won all the main battles is a complete waste. Think of the early Babylon 5 stand alone TV movies, set during the ongoing story but having no impact whatsoever on them. They were utterly pointless. At most such a TNG war story would end with "Yay we won this battle which is ultimately meaningless in the grand scheme of things."

Ignoring DS9 (except for a few thowaway references) was the best choice they could have made. Just wish the story they did tell was less shit.

Peach Wookiee February 24 2013 06:24 PM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
I think they could have started the movie rather like Star Wars, myself. "The Federation is embroiled in a conflict.... yada yada yada."

Lance February 24 2013 07:21 PM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
They could still have done that:

It is a time of civil war... Rebel spaceships strike from a hidden base... meanwhile, on the Enterprise, Captain Picard is wearing a funny hat.

;)

Wasn't there some implication that those funny hat guys at the very start of the movie were supposed to be potential allies in the dominion conflict, which is why the Federation was courting them? I wonder what they were going to bring to the table in the war?

sonak February 24 2013 10:13 PM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
Quote:

Gaith wrote: (Post 7723552)
1) The general public, including the masses who helped make TNG one of the most popular shows of its time, didn't watch DS9, and had no clue what the Dominion War was.

2) Paramount didn't allow for big Trek movie budgets.

3) It'd have been very difficult to align a feature, which can take years to produce, with a series churning out sixteen or so hours of content (not counting commercials and credits) every year.


all very good points.

INS went the right route in not telling a Dominion war story. Unfortunately, crappy writing sank the movie, not the idea to ignore the war.

USS Firefly February 25 2013 02:51 PM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
I would have loved a more Dominion War based movie.
But more in the line of Picard freeing Betazoid or something.
You don't have to explain the whole DW, but perhaps in a little opening like DS9 did with "emissary".
Like with "The wrath of Khan", you didn't first have to watch "space seed" to understand the movie.

Allyn Gibson February 26 2013 07:52 PM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
Quote:

King Daniel wrote: (Post 7724131)
The alternative, telling a random disposable standalone "side story" set during the war while DS9 won all the main battles is a complete waste. Think of the early Babylon 5 stand alone TV movies, set during the ongoing story but having no impact whatsoever on them. They were utterly pointless. At most such a TNG war story would end with "Yay we won this battle which is ultimately meaningless in the grand scheme of things."

By that standard, almost every World War II movie is meaningless and a waste. :)

Done properly, I think the audience could have understood a standalone Dominion War movie with the TNG cast. Audiences understand that they're not getting the totality of World War I in All Quiet on the Western Front or the totality of World War II in Tora! Tora! Tora! or Saving Private Ryan. Audiences don't get the complete picture of the Civil War in Gettysburg. A TNG Dominion War movie could have worked in the same way.

Gaith February 26 2013 09:21 PM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
^ Maybe, but most WW2 movies aren't about Patton or MacArthur. And it actually makes sense to keep the fleet's flagship and Picard largely out of harm's way, because losing either or both of 'em could've been a huge morale sapper.

arch101 February 27 2013 01:23 AM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
They could have done a really good war film about the Enterprise freeing an occupied Vulcan, a world populated by people known to non-fans. Even better, they could have gotten Nimoy involved as Old Spock would have been of help. Worf and maybe another DS9 cast member (O'Brien?) could have been dispatched on Defiant to help. There - you've got TOS, TNG and DS9 represented in one film without too much trouble. Missed opportunity.

HaventGotALife February 27 2013 07:40 AM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
I continue to be amazed at fans that kill Insurrection for being too small and to light, but also don't like Nemesis. I think it's because they are supposed to hate Nemesis. Shinzon is exactly like Nero. He's exactly like Khan. He is conflicted about what he wants to do with Picard, because just like Jean-Luc, he longs for family. It has space battles, it has special effects, and the stake is earth itself. See the death at the beginning of the movie? That's what will happen to earth. So if it's just about the stakes, I don't see how you can criticize both.

USS Firefly February 27 2013 10:57 AM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
Well Kahn didn't long for a family.
And Nemesis was a dumb action movie, slaves build a powerfull ship that can defeat the federation starship with ease, the dumb ramming scene, the Scimitar had 70% of shields left.
It's like in WWII the jews get out of the concentration camps and build a huge tank that can take on almost anything the German's have

HaventGotALife February 27 2013 01:09 PM

Re: Star Trek Insurrection the Dominion War??
 
Quote:

USS Firefly wrote: (Post 7738516)
Well Kahn didn't long for a family.
And Nemesis was a dumb action movie, slaves build a powerfull ship that can defeat the federation starship with ease, the dumb ramming scene, the Scimitar had 70% of shields left.
It's like in WWII the jews get out of the concentration camps and build a huge tank that can take on almost anything the German's have

Dominion War. He was given access because he fought major engagements in the war, I believe 8. He was a General before he came to power, before he freed the Remans. The meat of the story is whether Picard would be this man if he hadn't had his upbringing. Jean-Luc seems to think it's innate, his goodness. And, therefore, he can reach Shinzon. Shinzon is searching for his place in the galaxy. He finds comforts with the Remans, but he's not Reman. That's an old story, but one that's more intelligent than Generations' "I don't want to get old" story. Or "let's dominate the planet in the past" story of First Contact.


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