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-   -   Are the Borg the perfect enemy? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=203938)

RAMA February 19 2013 09:38 PM

Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
http://io9.com/5985124/is-it-possibl...=recirculation

Well, you judge.

I once postulated a "hive mind" that took a different tack...it enriched civilizations, allowed for individualism yet instant networking...differences of race, color, etc would be meaningless. I also proposeed they should be white instead of black or earth colors so as to touch upon our psychological interpretation of such colors. I foresaw that the UFP even with quantum torpedoes and the like could not hold their own and would eventually succumb to the Borg, but this new cyborg race would assist us, and at least force a stalemate. Would have made a FANTASTIC movie.

:borg:

Mojochi February 20 2013 12:38 AM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
I wouldn't say they're the perfect enemy, like Moriarty to Sherlock Holmes. The Romulans are that for Star Trek, an empire of equal might & reverse ideologies. However, The Borg are the perfect horror for our Star Trek heroes. There would be no battle fronts, neutral zones, espionage or enemy tactics with the Borg. They are simply a horror to repel, the worst they've ever known, from their prespective

heavy lids February 20 2013 02:31 AM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
Quote:

Mojochi wrote: (Post 7705003)
The Borg are the perfect horror for our Star Trek heroes.

Exactly. I think the Borg are the most unique and interesting sci-fi "bad guys", but I wouldn't say they're the perfect enemy. Just an incredibly frightening enemy.

Anji February 20 2013 03:09 AM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
As far as them being the perfect "horror", I give more credit to the directors of the Borg episodes for doing a good job in presenting them that way. In and of themselves, sorry, they're just Cybermen to me.

Tiberius February 20 2013 03:20 AM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
The Borg Collective is a spoiled brat.

JirinPanthosa February 20 2013 05:23 AM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
They were. In TNG.

jimbotron February 20 2013 06:50 AM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
Quote:

JirinPanthosa wrote: (Post 7705996)
They were. In TNG.

Right. Then First Contact happened. Then Voyager happened.

The Borg lost their luster after BOBW.

MickJo1701 February 20 2013 12:27 PM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
Quote:

jimbotron wrote: (Post 7706254)
Quote:

JirinPanthosa wrote: (Post 7705996)
They were. In TNG.

Right. Then First Contact happened. Then Voyager happened.

The Borg lost their luster after BOBW.

This!

Aside from the Queen, the 2 biggest mistakes with the Borg in my opinion where giving them the ability to travel through time (for obvious reasons) and Transwarp.

Part of what made them threatening in early TNG was that 'they will be coming', but because the initial encounter was thousands of light years away, they could only speculate as to when a Cube would eventually turn up on the doorstep.

Little did they know the Borg had an exit aperture from a Transwarp hub less than a lightyear from Earth and the only reason they haven't sent a fleet of ships to assimilate us is because they don't work Wednesday's...

CorporalClegg February 20 2013 11:36 PM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
No.

They're glorified space zombies.

Jeyl February 20 2013 11:43 PM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
Quote:

MickJo1701 wrote: (Post 7706749)
Aside from the Queen,

I'm sorry, but the Borg should not be sexy.

BillJ February 21 2013 01:07 AM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
Quote:

Mojochi wrote: (Post 7705003)
The Borg are the perfect horror for our Star Trek heroes.

Agreed.

Quote:

MickJo1701 wrote: (Post 7706749)
Aside from the Queen, the 2 biggest mistakes with the Borg in my opinion where giving them the ability to travel through time (for obvious reasons) and Transwarp.

They had to have some kind of faster-than-warp propulsion or else they'd have never made it all the way to the Romulan Neutral Zone or Jouret IV.

Agreed on time travel though. Terrible idea.

RAMA February 21 2013 05:08 AM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
To an extent, the Borg are another offshoot of Star Trek's distaste for human modification in any way. Eugenics: bad, Cloning: Bad, Balanced societies in perfect equilibrium and reaching homeostatis: Bad...and of course cybernetics, mind networking/uploading: bad. In this sense a cyborg race controlled through subspace is non-individualistic, a horror. Such distaste for general modifications is far more likely to lead to our destruction than the other way around.

I do plan on revisiting the Voyager Borg episodes soon, I forget some details, but I always felt that the Voyager episodes made the Borg seem even more powerful...the sheer numbers of assimilations, the size of the uni-complex and Borg Territory. They were defeated only by drastic, unconventional means, including time travel. They survived the loss of possibly tens of thousands of gigantic cubes to a rare superior race (Species 8472) and proliferated afterwards.

RAMA

BillJ February 21 2013 10:43 AM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
Yet kept getting their asses handed to them by a tiny Federation starship...

Takeru February 21 2013 11:29 AM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
The Borg are hardly perfect, they are too obviously evil looking, a perfect enemy is one you don't even see coming, not one in a scary cube ship that tells you upfront what theor plans are.

The Borg's biggest problem is that they're not pretty. Even if beauty doesn't matter to the collective, shouldn't they realize that getting rid of the tubes, having drones look sexy and changing your slogan from "resistance is futile" to "assimilation is bliss" would attract many people?
Imagine a sleak looking borg ship with 500 silver wearing male and female Seven of Nines that possess fake individuality (it can't be that hard for the collective to have the words "I'm soandso and being a borg is awesome" coming out of a drones mouth) showed up in orbit and declared that you are invited to join them, don't you think many people would line up for assimilation willingly? Of course some wouldn't trust them, but you always find doofuses who'll join the collective. Make a collective within the collective, that allows the new drones to keep their individuality at the start, let them experience all the good parts of being part of a hive mind and let them convince others, let them use their own words, don't force them to do anything. If someone wants to leave the collective because they realize it's not what they want after all just let them go, remove all traces of nanoprobes etc., it will make you look more trustworthy and three others will join instead. Once a sufficient part of the populatio is drones switch off their individuality and finish the job.
It would take longer but you don't have to blow up half of the population to get the other half.

C.E. Evans February 21 2013 01:00 PM

Re: Are the Borg the perfect enemy?
 
I would say the Borg are the worst kind of enemy from a storytelling perspective. If you make a bad guy too powerful, then you constantly have to find a way to weaken them for our heroes to win. After Wolf 359, the Borg should have swarmed the Federation with cube ships and pretty much taken it out, essentially ending Trek. Instead, the Borg continued to send in just one ship at a time to be beaten back each time.

Sure, we can try to justify the Borg's refusal to go full-out on the Federation on an idea that they don't think the Federation warrants more than a single Borg ship, but that's really just an excuse to keep the Borg beatable.


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