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-   -   History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=203527)

Lighthammer February 15 2013 12:11 AM

History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
I was re watching Enterprise Season 4 (some of the best trek ever written!) I realized they might have given us a very strong rational reason for why the Enterprise is typically deemed the Flagship of the Federation.

In the episode "United", the Enterprise acts as the flagship between the Vulcans, Andorians and Telerites.

Does anyone know if this was meant to explain why the linage of the Enterprise is, in universe, so important?

King Daniel Into Darkness February 15 2013 11:30 AM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
I figured it was important by virtue of it being first. And saving the world in season 3.

As for the name, I've heard that a deleted scene or cut line from somewhere in season one would have established that Zephram Cochrane himself named the Enterprise - and of course he got it from the Next Gen crew in First Contact, making the whole "Enterprise" name a temporal loop thingie.

Timo February 15 2013 12:58 PM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Quote:

the Enterprise is typically deemed the Flagship of the Federation.
Only in fandom, though. On screen, the E-D was the only ship of that name to carry the moniker.

Quote:

I figured it was important by virtue of it being first.
But if NX-01 made the name Enterprise important, why did Starfleet not build any starships of that name for the next hundred years?

It seems that the name for Kirk's ship was picked more or less by random, perhaps mostly in honor of the WWII aircraft carrier (in the real world, the most "heroic" of the lot), at a time when Archer's voyages had already been forgotten - and it was Kirk's ship rather than Archer's that made the name Enterprise a prominent one in Starfleet.

Timo Saloniemi

Nerys Myk February 16 2013 04:47 PM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 7686919)
Quote:

the Enterprise is typically deemed the Flagship of the Federation.
Only in fandom, though. On screen, the E-D was the only ship of that name to carry the moniker.

Quote:

I figured it was important by virtue of it being first.
But if NX-01 made the name Enterprise important, why did Starfleet not build any starships of that name for the next hundred years?

It seems that the name for Kirk's ship was picked more or less by random, perhaps mostly in honor of the WWII aircraft carrier (in the real world, the most "heroic" of the lot), at a time when Archer's voyages had already been forgotten - and it was Kirk's ship rather than Archer's that made the name Enterprise a prominent one in Starfleet.

Timo Saloniemi

The UFP was in its infancy, so they wanted to downplay Earth to promote "unity". The name Enterprise was put on hold till things firmed up.*



*I'll take fan rationalizations for 1000, Alex. ;)

Iamnotspock February 16 2013 05:12 PM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 7686919)
It seems that the name for Kirk's ship was picked more or less by random, perhaps mostly in honor of the WWII aircraft carrier (in the real world, the most "heroic" of the lot), at a time when Archer's voyages had already been forgotten - and it was Kirk's ship rather than Archer's that made the name Enterprise a prominent one in Starfleet.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that this was the case in the original series timeline, but that ENT takes place in an alternate one created by First Contact and the Temporal Cold War. Is it not possible that the NX-01 was called something else in the original history, until the Enterprise-E went back and gave Cochrane the name, and that it wasn't quite as significant in history until the TCW factions intervened?

King Daniel Into Darkness February 16 2013 05:15 PM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Eh, if they could retcon the Enterprise NX-01 into the continuity, they could slip another one in afterwards. Harve Bennett's unmade prequel movie Star Trek: The Academy Years featured an older USS Enterprise.

It's always possible that a very prominent non-Starfleet ship had the Enterprise name during the era. That ringship from the TMP rec room wall, for example...

Dukhat February 16 2013 05:31 PM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 7686919)
It seems that the name for Kirk's ship was picked more or less by random, perhaps mostly in honor of the WWII aircraft carrier (in the real world, the most "heroic" of the lot), at a time when Archer's voyages had already been forgotten - and it was Kirk's ship rather than Archer's that made the name Enterprise a prominent one in Starfleet.

I'd have to agree with this. It seems that the NX class vessels were named after the Space Shuttles, while Kirk's Enterprise was named primarily after the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier, as other ships in TOS were primarily named after naval vessels. There doesn't have to be any correlation at all between Archer's ship and Kirk's ship as far as the nomenclature goes.

King Daniel Into Darkness February 16 2013 06:01 PM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 7691068)
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 7686919)
It seems that the name for Kirk's ship was picked more or less by random, perhaps mostly in honor of the WWII aircraft carrier (in the real world, the most "heroic" of the lot), at a time when Archer's voyages had already been forgotten - and it was Kirk's ship rather than Archer's that made the name Enterprise a prominent one in Starfleet.

I'd have to agree with this. It seems that the NX class vessels were named after the Space Shuttles, while Kirk's Enterprise was named primarily after the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier, as other ships in TOS were primarily named after naval vessels. There doesn't have to be any correlation at all between Archer's ship and Kirk's ship as far as the nomenclature goes.

That's because there was no space shuttle Enterprise when TOS wae made. And of course, the shuttle was named for Trek's ship, and first appeared in-universe in TMP, as part of the rec room display.

I wonder what Trek's version of Enterprise OV-101 was named for? I guess that goes in the "universe exploding questions" box along with what the Trekverse lyrics are to the Beastie Boys' Intergalactic...

Sci February 16 2013 10:24 PM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Quote:

King Daniel wrote: (Post 7691116)
I wonder what Trek's version of Enterprise OV-101 was named for? I guess that goes in the "universe exploding questions" box along with what the Trekverse lyrics are to the Beastie Boys' Intergalactic...

Maybe in the Star Trek Universe, the big American space opera franchise was an alternate version of Babylon 5 featuring the adventures of Captain John Sheridan of the E.A.S. Enterprise -- prompting a huge fan campaign to name the first United States space shuttle in honor of that franchise instead. ;)

Mr. Laser Beam February 16 2013 10:40 PM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
^ I always wondered if, in-universe, B5 had an EAS Enterprise, and what kind of ship it was. Probably Explorer class.

Would there be a copyright problem if JMS had decided to actually use a ship with that name? Or would the "EAS" prefix get around that?

King Daniel Into Darkness February 16 2013 11:14 PM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Yeah, CBS has copyright on "Starship Enterprise" which covers any spaceship with that name in TV/film.

I've read that they also have copyright on the basic saucer/nacelles shape. Not quite sure how you copyright something in such broad terms, though.

Mr. Laser Beam February 16 2013 11:54 PM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Quote:

King Daniel wrote: (Post 7692091)
Yeah, CBS has copyright on "Starship Enterprise" which covers any spaceship with that name in TV/film.

Really? That sounds kind of pathetic, actually. :rolleyes: This includes alternate prefixes, like the "EAS" used on B5? It's not like viewers would be dumb enough to confuse the two.

Sci February 17 2013 01:37 AM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7692238)
Quote:

King Daniel wrote: (Post 7692091)
Yeah, CBS has copyright on "Starship Enterprise" which covers any spaceship with that name in TV/film.

Really? That sounds kind of pathetic, actually. :rolleyes: This includes alternate prefixes, like the "EAS" used on B5? It's not like viewers would be dumb enough to confuse the two.

No, it makes sense. Any work that features a prominent fictional spaceship named Enterprise is treading on ice CBS/Paramount already owns; they should pick their own name if they want a spaceship. (And it's probably a trademark, not a copyright.)

Nerys Myk February 17 2013 02:17 AM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Quote:

King Daniel wrote: (Post 7691047)
Eh, if they could retcon the Enterprise NX-01 into the continuity, they could slip another one in afterwards. Harve Bennett's unmade prequel movie Star Trek: The Academy Years featured an older USS Enterprise.

It's always possible that a very prominent non-Starfleet ship had the Enterprise name during the era. That ringship from the TMP rec room wall, for example...

The ringship would seem to predate the NX-01 based on images seen in "First Flight".

Mr. Laser Beam February 17 2013 02:30 AM

Re: History of the Enterprise Flagship revealed?
 
Quote:

Sci wrote: (Post 7692700)
Any work that features a prominent fictional spaceship named Enterprise is treading on ice CBS/Paramount already owns

What if it's not prominent? Just some random ship in the background?


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