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Freman February 13 2013 03:12 PM

Andor question
 
So I'm reading Dayton Ward's TNG Typhon Pact novel at the moment, and I can't help but notice how often he is describing the planet Andor as being warm, and sunny, with a cool breeze. Stuff like that. Also, the characters "step out onto the grass" and are admiring the waterfalls and flowers.

um..isn't Andor an ice planet? What's going on here? This novel came after ENT. Was there some huge climate change due to the Borg attack on the planet, or am I missing something?

lvsxy808 February 13 2013 03:25 PM

Re: Andor question
 
It's probably tricky to reconcile, because the descriptions of it being hot and sweaty were established in earlier novels that came out before Andor was definitively portrayed as an ice planet in Enterprise. So the new books are walking a fine line trying to not contradict either of those earlier sources.

But if I understand correctly, the assumption has been that in ENT, the planet was in the last vestiges of an ice age. But with 200 years of climate change and more advanced weather control technologies, the Andorians now live in somewhat more temperate climes than the ones the species evolved in. However, the consequence is a certain meteorological unpredictability, as seen with the huge storms and sudden floods in Paradigm.

.

King Daniel Into Darkness February 13 2013 03:34 PM

Re: Andor question
 
I believe those scenes take place in the equatorial zone, where it's far more temperate. Other parts of the planet are described in the book as being colder than Delta Vega.

Christopher February 13 2013 03:39 PM

Re: Andor question
 
This isn't Star Wars, so planets are allowed to have more than one climate. ;)

Deranged Nasat February 13 2013 04:11 PM

Re: Andor question
 
Fear not, gentle Arrakian, the Nasat is here! :p

As lvsxy808 mentioned upthread, the early DS9 relaunch novels outright stated that Andorians prefer warm and humid environments; fortunately, they didn't state that Andorians required such, only that it was a preference. When Enterprise established Andor as a frozen moon, the novels mostly ignored the contradiction and made Shran and his 22nd century buddies conform to the cultural and naming conventions established in the DS9 books.

The Myriad Universes story "The Chimes At Midnight" later provided an explanation for why Andor in the DS9 novels is not so frozen, helping fully reconcile the two interpretations. Apparently, a global warming project was initiated in the early 23rd century tto increase Andor's agricultural capacity and thus reduce their dependency on offworld supply; apparently their trade deficit was becoming quite the issue. This warming project was a success, although it threatened the remaining Aenar settlements and led to a bit of a political kerfuffle. As Therin has pointed out on occasion, the sudden flash floods in parts of the planet as depicted in Andor: Paradigm might be considered the result of continued rapid melting.

Happily, DS9 relaunch Andorians were depicted as building subterranean dwellings, which fits nicely with what Enterprise established. The novels hinted that Andorian civilization was built around hot springs, which might explain the preference for heat and humidity while also keeping them adapted for the cold?

Deranged Nasat February 13 2013 04:27 PM

Re: Andor question
 
On the other hand, given the Boreth issue, I propose the following:

Star Trek ice is different to normal ice, and can spontaneously vanish without apparent cause ;)

Paris February 13 2013 05:07 PM

Re: Andor question
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 7678327)
This isn't Star Wars, so planets are allowed to have more than one climate. ;)

This!

Relayer1 February 13 2013 05:20 PM

Re: Andor question
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 7678327)
This isn't Star Wars, so planets are allowed to have more than one climate. ;)

That's ridiculous - how are we supposed to know which planet we are on now ?

It's cold - must be Hoth !

It's a desert - we're on Tatooine !

See - it works !

;)

Therin of Andor February 13 2013 10:49 PM

Re: Andor question
 
Quote:

Deranged Nasat wrote: (Post 7678468)
As Therin has pointed out on occasion, the sudden flash floods in parts of the planet as depicted in Andor: Paradigm might be considered the result of continued rapid melting.

Heather Jarman managed an amazing feat with that story. As an Andorian chaser since 1980, I was amazed how many rare touchstones she managed to put in, many by fluke. (The cosmic consciousness at work!) The subterranean scenes in "Paradigm" matched up with numerous fanfic stories over the decades (and the "Starship Exeter" fan film set on Andor) even though Heather was unaware of those. She managed to slip in clothing references that indicated Andorian fashions seen (or barely glimpsed) in TOS, TMP and ENT.

And that flash flood scene in "Paradigm" suddenly became even more amazing when the ENT episode, "The Aenar", showed us so much ice and snow. But yeah, "The Aenar" was set on Andor's north pole, the Aenar themselves had passed into legend and one can imagine that the Andorian equator is heavily populated and perhaps a bit warmer.

Quote:

DS9 relaunch Andorians were depicted as building subterranean dwellings, which fits nicely with what Enterprise established. The novels hinted that Andorian civilization was built around hot springs, which might explain the preference for heat and humidity while also keeping them adapted for the cold?
Indeed. Not to mention that Paramount's "Planet Hell" set reused the same caves over and over, and TOS had its own well-reused papier-mâché caverns.

Christopher February 13 2013 11:22 PM

Re: Andor question
 
Quote:

Therin of Andor wrote: (Post 7680178)
And that flash flood scene in "Paradigm" suddenly became even more amazing when the ENT episode, "The Aenar", showed us so much ice and snow. But yeah, "The Aenar" was set on Andor's north pole, the Aenar themselves had passed into legend and one can imagine that the Andorian equator is heavily populated and perhaps a bit warmer.

Actually, in "The Aenar," it was said that there were places on Andoria where the temperature rose "above freezing for weeks at a time," suggesting that it was a pretty thoroughly glaciated planet at the time. And Shran said their cities were underground and he hadn't seen the sun until he was 15. So there's definitely been some major warming since then.

tomswift2002 February 18 2013 04:02 PM

Re: Andor question
 
Are we talking about the same thing? Since, if I remember "The Aenar" episode correctly, the events take place on the moon orbiting the planet, with no mention of whether that is actually a gas giant or a very cloudy planet that we see in the background! (Although it did clear up why in the various series the Andorians homeworld was referred to as both Andor and Andoria).

Sci February 18 2013 05:21 PM

Re: Andor question
 
Quote:

tomswift2002 wrote: (Post 7698823)
Are we talking about the same thing? Since, if I remember "The Aenar" episode correctly, the events take place on the moon orbiting the planet, with no mention of whether that is actually a gas giant or a very cloudy planet that we see in the background! (Although it did clear up why in the various series the Andorians homeworld was referred to as both Andor and Andoria).

What's there to clear up? They're from the moon, and it's called both Andor and Andoria. Just like our planet is called both Earth and Terra, and Spock's world is called both Vulcan and Vulcanis, etc.

For that matter, it's just like how the capital of China is called both Peking and Beijing. Lots of places have multiple names.

Christopher February 18 2013 06:11 PM

Re: Andor question
 
Quote:

Sci wrote: (Post 7699123)
For that matter, it's just like how the capital of China is called both Peking and Beijing.

Well, those are just different transliterations or regional pronunciations of the same word, rather than distinct names.

Sci February 18 2013 08:40 PM

Re: Andor question
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 7699279)
Quote:

Sci wrote: (Post 7699123)
For that matter, it's just like how the capital of China is called both Peking and Beijing.

Well, those are just different transliterations or regional pronunciations of the same word, rather than distinct names.

Fair point, but then that just points to how names can be changed and altered over time, especially in the hands of a foreign culture.

And then there's the issue of a native name vs. foreign name. We call it Germany, but its native name is Deutschland; the Germans call it Spanien, but its native name is España; the Spanish call it Japón, but its native name is Nippon; etc.

Heck, "Andoria" is almost certainly an Anglicization of the native name, even if "Andor" actually is the native term. After all, it's not like they'd be likely to use a Latin suffix for their world.

Christopher February 18 2013 08:50 PM

Re: Andor question
 
^That's pretty much my thinking.


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