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-   -   Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=203287)

DavidLeeRoth February 12 2013 03:43 PM

Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
I didn't see a specific thread talking about the subject, so I hope that this hasn't already been discussed to death.

If the Klingons appear in the new film with ridges, how will that be explained? Klingons in the mid-23rd century should not have cranial ridges! Wouldn't depicting Klingons with a ridged forehead in the new film be a slap in the face to Trek canon and history?

Abrams could argue that most people who see the film won't care or have even heard of the augment virus, but some fans will care and for the integrity of the franchise, the Klingons should not have cranial ridges.

King Daniel Into Darkness February 12 2013 03:50 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
According to "Affliction"/"Divergence" one Klingon colony world was infected with the Augment virus. Therefore both smooth and bumpy Klingons should have co-existed in the Empire, even though we never saw it on TV or film (this was, however, depicted in the post-series Enterprise novels and a few old TOS ones too)

In Into Darkness we'll see about a dozen Klingons, but only 3 or 4 of them unmasked - and since what's under the masks of the others isn't revealed, some could very well be smooth-headed. So no continuity error, IMO.

Oso Blanco February 12 2013 03:50 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
One could argue that not the whole Klingon population had been infected with the virus, and probably get away with it. There were other canon violations in the first movie that can't be explained away that easily, though.

Saul February 12 2013 03:56 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
Fan wank: It could be that they wear those masks to cover up the fact that they have no ridges.

King Daniel Into Darkness February 12 2013 03:56 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
Quote:

Oso Blanco wrote: (Post 7673641)
There were other canon violations in the first movie that can't be explained away that easily, though.

Such as?

anh165 February 12 2013 04:06 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
Quote:

DavidLeeRoth wrote: (Post 7673605)
I didn't see a specific thread talking about the subject, so I hope that this hasn't already been discussed to death.

If the Klingons appear in the new film with ridges, how will that be explained? Klingons in the mid-23rd century should not have cranial ridges! Wouldn't depicting Klingons with a ridged forehead in the new film be a slap in the face to Trek canon and history?

Abrams could argue that most people who see the film won't care or have even heard of the augment virus, but some fans will care and for the integrity of the franchise, the Klingons should not have cranial ridges.

Artistic license?

DavidLeeRoth February 12 2013 04:18 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
Quote:

King Daniel wrote: (Post 7673635)
According to "Affliction"/"Divergence" one Klingon colony world was infected with the Augment virus. Therefore both smooth and bumpy Klingons should have co-existed in the Empire, even though we never saw it on TV or film (this was, however, depicted in the post-series Enterprise novels and a few old TOS ones too)

In Into Darkness we'll see about a dozen Klingons, but only 3 or 4 of them unmasked - and since what's under the masks of the others isn't revealed, some could very well be smooth-headed. So no continuity error, IMO.

That's a good, plausible explanation. Still, I would like to see some smoothed-headed Klingons. It would be a nice homage to TOS. Do we know for certain that there won't be any smoothed-headed Klingons?

The Stig February 12 2013 04:37 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
There will be no 'smooth-headed' Klingons because the Enterprise episode arc that 'explained' the difference was stupid and pointless. Worf's joke in 'Trials and Tribble-ations' was explanation enough.

Gojira February 12 2013 04:38 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
God I hope there are no smooth headed Klingons in this movie!!! I never saw the episode (can't even remember which show it was on) that explained the changes.

IMHO no explanation was ever needed. In the 60s the studio could not afford to make the Klingons look as they wanted to. Then during the movies and subsequent series when there was more money they could afford to make them look how they originally were supposed to look.

When I watch TOS I can suspend disbelief and imagine they look as they later were depicted.

I don't need to have all of these changes explained to me on the screen. I can use my imagination.

[/rant]

Mach5 February 12 2013 04:54 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
Quote:

Gojira wrote: (Post 7673869)
God I hope there are no smooth headed Klingons in this movie!!! I never saw the episode (can't even remember which show it was on) that explained the changes.

IMHO no explanation was ever needed. In the 60s the studio could not afford to make the Klingons look as they wanted to. Then during the movies and subsequent series when there was more money they could afford to make them look how they originally were supposed to look.

When I watch TOS I can suspend disbelief and imagine they look as they later were depicted.

I don't need to have all of these changes explained to me on the screen. I can use my imagination.
[/rant]

Exactly how I feel.

What about the Romulans, BTW? Honestly, I never saw the point to those V-shaped forehead ridges they got in TNG, and I was happy to see Abramsverse embracing the classic approach... Even though that's not technically the case, considering the amount of prosthetics Nero and CO. wore in that movie... But still.

anh165 February 12 2013 04:57 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
Again it is artistic license and the audience's suspension of disbelief in regards to their appearance.

It seems here that some are only concerned about their appearance to comply interweb centric canon, they would rather have a ridge headed batleth waving, blood wine guzzling ape man than some well thought out rational and intelligent Klingon with a smooth forehead that has some relevance to the movie.

Ovation February 12 2013 04:58 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
I didn't ever feel the need for an explanation, but I didn't mind the one they came up with in Enterprise. However, just as viruses don't usually infect an entire population, I would expect A) that smooth and ridged headed Klingons are around in this period and B) that there are enough of each that the absence of either is no big deal. This is really a tiny point over which to quibble.

Jackson_Roykirk February 12 2013 04:58 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
Quote:

DavidLeeRoth wrote: (Post 7673605)
If the Klingons appear in the new film with ridges, how will that be explained? Klingons in the mid-23rd century should not have cranial ridges! Wouldn't depicting Klingons with a ridged forehead in the new film be a slap in the face to Trek canon and history?

However they are shown -- smooth-headed or ridged -- it can all be explained the exact same way TMP explained the change from smooth to ridged.

Ovation February 12 2013 05:00 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
Thank God they cut out that 20 minute lecture on viral mutations and its effects on internal Klingon politics and social policy, though. TMP was long enough as it was. :p

M'Sharak February 12 2013 05:29 PM

Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons
 
Quote:

DavidLeeRoth wrote: (Post 7673605)

Abrams could argue that most people who see the film won't care or have even heard of the augment virus...

Why would he wish to make that argument, though?

Quote:

DavidLeeRoth wrote: (Post 7673605)
... but some fans will care and for the integrity of the franchise, the Klingons should not have cranial ridges.

Some folks do have some interesting notions concerning "the integrity of the franchise" but, as has already been pointed out, nothing seen or said in any previous episode or movie precludes the appearance of bumpy-headed Klingons in the upcoming movie. Or smooth-headed Klingons. Or a mixture of both, plus some never-before-seen pointy-headed Klingons.

Bring 'em all on. "It is a good day to put your opponent's eye out with that pointy, pointy head!"


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