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-   -   What examples of multiple species from one world are there? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=203236)

rfmcdpei February 12 2013 02:04 AM

What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
One thing that came up in the discussion thread on Dark Mirror that I started up yesterday was the topic of multiple sapient species existing on a single world. (Cetaceans came up initially, but as the discussion progressed all sorts of reasonably intelligent, communicative, even tool-using species from elephants to corvids to cephalopods came up.

What examples of a world with more than one indigenous sapient species are there in the Trkeverse? Valakis has the Valakians and Menk in the Enterprise episode "Dear Doctor", along with the Xindi from the same series. I find the Xindi more plausible, actually--the five, originally six, sapient species of Xindus would each have evolved in very different ecological niches and would have been less likely to be outcompeted by others, while the Valakians and Menk are very closely related compete in the same areas. (I'd have bet that the Menk would be absorbed into the Valakians, on the model of the Neanderthals into the Homo sapiens sapiens population.) Earth, as Star Trek IV established, is also one of these worlds, humans and humpback whales co-existing for centuries until the latter species' 21st century extinction.

What am I missing?

Christopher February 12 2013 02:12 AM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Spock's World (and the Tuvok chapter in Pathways that borrows from it) postulates the existence of sapient whale-like creatures living under the sands of Vulcan's deserts.

Thrawn February 12 2013 03:16 AM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Enterprise: By The Book is about a situation like that. Better than you'd expect for being the first original Enterprise novel, too.

Therin of Andor February 12 2013 03:46 AM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
"Gemworld" duology, IIRC.

dansigal February 12 2013 03:57 AM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Trill

Christopher February 12 2013 03:58 AM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Quote:

Therin of Andor wrote: (Post 7672297)
"Gemworld" duology, IIRC.

Except I don't think any of the species were native, though.

It occurred to me to wonder if the Aenar would count, but they were described as a subspecies of Andorian rather than a separate species. So it's a borderline case.


Quote:

dansigal wrote: (Post 7672330)
Trill

*Slaps forehead* Of course -- we missed the obvious example.

rfmcdpei February 12 2013 04:10 AM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 7672336)
Quote:

Therin of Andor wrote: (Post 7672297)
"Gemworld" duology, IIRC.

Except I don't think any of the species were native, though.

It occurred to me to wonder if the Aenar would count, but they were described as a subspecies of Andorian rather than a separate species. So it's a borderline case.

I'd classify them with the Valakians and Menk, or Homo sapiens sapiens and Neanderthals from Earth's history. They are very closely related populations and, because they are capable of producing offspring with each other (fertile offspring?), arguably aren't even separate species. The Aenar lived by themselves in cities of ice, but that seems to be more a lifestyle choice than an ecological adaptation; I can imagine the Aenar outcompeting the Andorians, not the other way around.

Quote:

dansigal wrote: (Post 7672330)
Trill

*Slaps forehead* Of course -- we missed the obvious example.[/QUOTE]

Doh! indeed.

Christopher February 12 2013 04:13 AM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Quote:

rfmcdpei wrote: (Post 7672387)
...and, because they are capable of producing offspring with each other (fertile offspring?), arguably aren't even separate species.

I don't think that's a standard we can really apply in the Trek universe...

rfmcdpei February 12 2013 05:54 AM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 7672399)
Quote:

rfmcdpei wrote: (Post 7672387)
...and, because they are capable of producing offspring with each other (fertile offspring?), arguably aren't even separate species.

I don't think that's a standard we can really apply in the Trek universe...

Well, yes, in worlds where a Cardassian can find that his Bajoran mistress can conceive and successfully bring to full term a child of mixed heritage, yes.

Still, the Aenar do seem to have been pretty closely related to the Andorians, and inasmuch as neither species seems to have reproduced with non-Aenar/Andorians that definition would still hold. I think.

(The case can be made that different and apparently readily interfertile populations like Humans, Betazoidsvery human

zarkon February 12 2013 07:11 AM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Flyspeck in "Doctor's Orders".

lvsxy808 February 12 2013 10:34 AM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Nasats and Citoac in Balance of Nature.

.

Deranged Nasat February 12 2013 11:10 AM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Regarding Gemworld, the Lipuls and the Frills were both native (the other four races introduced), so Gemworld does indeed count. :)

As mentioned in the Dark Mirror thread, Orion's Hounds namedrops Betazoid pachyderms as an equivalent to dolphins - sapient but wild and uncivilized - so that's Betazed added to the list.

Would Huanni and Falorians count as different species, or is that another Andorian/Aenar situation? They're more like racial variants within a species, I suppose.

From the TV series: the world of the Vori and Kradin, apparently, from Voyager. Unless one of the races colonized in antiquity.

Markonian February 12 2013 02:55 PM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
To Earth, I would add the Voth and Clan Ru.

Do we know anything more about the relation between Dopterians and Ferengi? (Might add the Kobheerians - they look almost like the Dops).

Christopher February 12 2013 03:18 PM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Quote:

Deranged Nasat wrote: (Post 7673074)
From the TV series: the world of the Vori and Kradin, apparently, from Voyager. Unless one of the races colonized in antiquity.

Also the Ledosians and their offshoot species the Ventu in "Natural Law."


Quote:

Markonian wrote: (Post 7673428)
To Earth, I would add the Voth and Clan Ru.

Except that Clan Ru didn't evolve sapience on Earth, but their ancestors were transplanted by some Preserver-type race and evolved into Clan Ru on another world. And I prefer to believe the same was true of the Voth (and that their ancestors were most likely transplanted by the same group), since that's more credible than the characters' conjecture in-episode that their ancestors evolved a starfaring civilization on Earth that somehow left no evidence in the geological record. (Even if they had somehow remained limited to land masses that subsequently submerged or eroded away, an industrial civilization would've caused atmospheric and environmental changes that would leave a chemical footprint in the corresponding stratum.)


Quote:

Do we know anything more about the relation between Dopterians and Ferengi? (Might add the Kobheerians - they look almost like the Dops).
I'm assuming some ancient common ancestor that colonized or seeded multiple worlds. It's been known to happen in Trek...

Deranged Nasat February 12 2013 04:08 PM

Re: What examples of multiple species from one world are there?
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 7673497)

Quote:

Do we know anything more about the relation between Dopterians and Ferengi? (Might add the Kobheerians - they look almost like the Dops).
I'm assuming some ancient common ancestor that colonized or seeded multiple worlds. It's been known to happen in Trek...

On that note...the Algolians and Pardshay's race. Descendants of Promellian colonies? Especially since Algol is another of those "easily namedropped but unlikely to actually support habitable planets" systems.


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