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-   -   How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=203179)

ZapBrannigan February 11 2013 02:42 PM

How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
I'm imagining Marta's explosive demise in "Whom Gods Destroy" and wondering if the CGI artists should have added a big splash of green blood smacking the window and running down, leaving a stain.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps879fa76a.jpg

In other words, should they have traded historicity for impact?

The CGi was very restrained throughout the series, and I wonder if they could have done a little more here and there without straying too far from the original feeling. Note that the original was restrained by a combination of budget, technology, and the broadcast standards of the time, so it wasn't necessarily the "intent" of the creators.

plynch February 11 2013 04:28 PM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
Once you're changing things, why not? Eliminate those toupee lines people report seeing, or continuity errors. Have a voice actor read in a Balok line so Sulu's line makes sense.

Not being sarcastic, here. I'd probably still prefer the old dvd's, but once you cosmetically change the Enterprise, a main character, even how she moves, why not change more? Didn't they change Sulu's chronometer? Stuff like that. Or "one to the tenth power" in Court Martial.

Why not make a new physical model of the Ent and shoot her under similar lights and film grain, rather than CGI? Just do it with what is currently the best tech. Change rank braids that make no sense. Keep going, once the cows are out of the barn.

Robert D. Robot February 11 2013 04:34 PM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
Seeing Marta's blood splattering across a window would have strayed quite a bit from the original feeling, in my opinion. LIGHT YEARS away-- and in a direction that I would not appreciate seeing. Showing Remmick's head exploding in TNG's "Conspiracy" was not a good creative choice, in my opinion. Adding such elements from Slasher/Splatter Films is a trek that I am glad they chose not to take.

King Daniel Into Darkness February 11 2013 04:54 PM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
They should have either kept TOS exactly the same, scene for scene or gone George Lucas insane, adding much more detail to the ships and alien crewmemembers in the background.

I think the latter could have been a lot of fun - I'd love to see Arex on the bridge manning a previously empty station, or Kirk and Spock walk past M'ress in a hallway. Replace the obvious pictures hung around the bridge with animated displays. Re-edit the Klingon fleet scene in "Errand of Mercy" so you see an enourmous fleet made up of a variety of Klingon ship types, one leading ship takes a warning potshot at the Enterprise. Have the M-5 take on an upgraded Phase II-style Connie, a Franz Joseph Dreadnought and a TOS-style Miranda. Add a window or two to the recreation room.

Ssosmcin February 11 2013 04:59 PM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
I'm of two minds on it. Part of me would have preferred they replicate the original effects shots to keep the original feel while still making them appropriate for the HD transfers. I'm not all that thrilled with the live action changes (the phaser firing in the corridors of Wink of an Eye for example), but the matte painting updates were very cool. For some reason, I also don't really like the super duper close ups of the Enterprise as it flies across the screen (See Return of the Archons). I prefer to see the whole ship.

On the other hand, going a little further gave us a sequence at the end of Tomorrow is Yesterday that not only clarified the slingshot effect, it became an exciting sequence as well.

Blood spattering? I don't think we need that in Star Trek ever. Her death by explosion was effective enough as is. Where is the line, if you go that far? Do they CGI in a boner every time Kirk sees a hot chick?

Lance February 11 2013 07:00 PM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
Quote:

the original was restrained by a combination of budget, technology, and the broadcast standards of the time, so it wasn't necessarily the "intent" of the creators.
It's kind of hard to say what "the intent of the creators" actually was, though. Unless the people behind TOS-R roused up Bob Justman out of his nap every single day and marched him down to CBS-D to personally sign off on every detail... ;)

I think production personel on something like Star Trek always did their best with what they had. Sure, they would always have liked to do things differently, if they'd had more time and money. But ultimately, in my view, a product of the sixties is a product of the sixties, and adding extraneous CGI to it certainly does not fulfil "the intent of the creators". All it does do is polish up something old to a more modern standard that will, regardless, never actually 'be' a modern production. IMO if anything, adding CGI (or whatever else) to Star Trek isn't really about realising "the intent of the creators" at all. That's where I think a lot of fans make a mistake. It's more about meeting the expectations of a modern audience. :vulcan:

Noname Given February 11 2013 07:40 PM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 7668808)
I'm imagining Marta's explosive demise in "Whom Gods Destroy" and wondering if the CGI artists should have added a big splash of green blood smacking the window and running down, leaving a stain.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps879fa76a.jpg

In other words, should they have traded historicity for impact?

The CGi was very restrained throughout the series, and I wonder if they could have done a little more here and there without straying too far from the original feeling. Note that the original was restrained by a combination of budget, technology, and the broadcast standards of the time, so it wasn't necessarily the "intent" of the creators.

What would b the point of adding more 'gore' to the scene? Also, TOS (and other Star Trek series) are currently considered (for the most part) 'safe' family viewing. Why wpould you want to change that?

Redfern February 11 2013 07:49 PM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
For that matter, do we know for certain Orion Slave Girl blood is green? (Did they show it in that 4th season episode of Enterpries? The show was pulled in my area before it aired.)

Sincerely,

Bill

Metryq February 11 2013 08:19 PM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
Quote:

Noname Given wrote: (Post 7670146)
TOS (and other Star Trek series) are currently considered (for the most part) 'safe' family viewing.

I like some of the TOS-R effects, while disliking others. This is not a rabid preservationist attitude so much as an aesthetic judgment. Many of the new FX simply do not match the style of the rest of the showólike bits of cursive brush script in the middle of a page of plain, sans serif text, or maybe a rock'n'roll guitar riff in the middle of Vivaldi's SPRING.

As Noname remarked, gore would be out of style for TOS. There is also a "zeitgeist" issue. During the '60s Ginger and MaryAnn on GILLIGAN'S ISLAND and Jeannie on I DREAM OF JEANNIE did not show their bellybuttons on TV. The makers of STAR TREK spoke in parables to get their message past the network censors. Add gore to that? Seeing Marta choke in the poisonous atmosphere was enough. No need to Spielberg it up with inyerface FX.

ZapBrannigan February 12 2013 04:08 AM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
Quote:

Redfern wrote: (Post 7670197)
For that matter, do we know for certain Orion Slave Girl blood is green?

If it hit the window, we'd know. The remasters are considered canon. Or maybe canon-R would be a good name for it.

ZapBrannigan February 12 2013 04:38 AM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
Quote:

Metryq wrote: (Post 7670365)
As Noname remarked, gore would be out of style for TOS. There is also a "zeitgeist" issue. During the '60s Ginger and MaryAnn on GILLIGAN'S ISLAND and Jeannie on I DREAM OF JEANNIE did not show their bellybuttons on TV. The makers of STAR TREK spoke in parables to get their message past the network censors. Add gore to that? Seeing Marta choke in the poisonous atmosphere was enough. No need to Spielberg it up with inyerface FX.

I can see that. I think the problem is that STAR TREK so often had somebody die "to show the situation is serious" (a la GALAXY QUEST), and sometimes many people died, but the show also wanted a lighthearted, happy ending to almost every episode. So that was yet another reason to make the deaths hygienic and tidy.

At the end of "Whom Gods Destroy," if Kirk was having his little joke about Spock letting himself get hit on the head-- but Marta's bloody splash was still imprinted on the viewer's mind, it would clash. If the stained window had been in the actual scene behind Kirk and Spock for that moment, it would clash awesomely and almost sabotage our protagonists. But it's interesting to think about.

blssdwlf February 12 2013 05:10 AM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
The explosive wouldn't be the "most powerful one in history" if it left any trace of Marta. Just sayin' :D

Oso Blanco February 12 2013 06:12 AM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 7668808)
How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

They have already gone too far, for my taste.

T'Girl February 12 2013 07:52 AM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 7672369)
Or maybe canon-R would be a good name for it.

That's a great idea Zap, a way of nicely separating the revision, from the original.

:cool:

Maurice February 12 2013 08:06 AM

Re: How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?
 
How far? To the end of the driveway and back.


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