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-   -   Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movie? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=202774)

Lance February 7 2013 02:37 PM

Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movie?
 
Going all the way back to the original release in 1994, I've always loved this first section of the movie, and have often felt that the rest of the movie (the TNG section) just doesn't live up to it. Captain Harriman is a complete weenie, but otherwise I've always liked this little vignette with the launch of the Enterprise-B. There are some great lines despite the script obviously having to be retailored after Nimoy and Kelley bowed out, including one or two genuinely touching character moments with the TOS crew ("I was never that young..." "No... you were younger"). Shatner's death scene is also infinitely more in keeping with how I'd prefer to see Captain Kirk breathing his last, as opposed to the almost pointless way he dies in the Veridian III scenes. Oh sure, in the latter case he's helping to save a pre-warp civilisation from Soran's probe obliterating them, but I just don't care much for the way he's almost arbitrarily wiped out -- and this was the remounted version after the original 'shoot him in the back' version was deemed unsatisfactory!

Am I alone in thinking this? :confused:

anh165 February 7 2013 03:00 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
The opening scene feels like a gentle continuation of The Undiscovered Country.

I always seem to lose interest rapidly after the Enterprise B scene ends.

Lance February 7 2013 03:06 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
I especially like the way it feels... completely self contained. You can almost stick that movie on and then stop watching it after Kirk falls out of the big hole in the side of the 'B'.

DalekJim February 7 2013 03:52 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
It's a fun cosy nostagia trip but nothing special.

Sadly, it probably is the best part of Generations. Which shall hopefully forever remain the shittiest Star Trek movie.

Ketrick February 7 2013 06:55 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
Quote:

Lance wrote: (Post 7651978)
Going all the way back to the original release in 1994, I've always loved this first section of the movie, and have often felt that the rest of the movie (the TNG section) just doesn't live up to it. Captain Harriman is a complete weenie, but otherwise I've always liked this little vignette with the launch of the Enterprise-B. There are some great lines despite the script obviously having to be retailored after Nimoy and Kelley bowed out, including one or two genuinely touching character moments with the TOS crew ("I was never that young..." "No... you were younger"). Shatner's death scene is also infinitely more in keeping with how I'd prefer to see Captain Kirk breathing his last, as opposed to the almost pointless way he dies in the Veridian III scenes. Oh sure, in the latter case he's helping to save a pre-warp civilisation from Soran's probe obliterating them, but I just don't care much for the way he's almost arbitrarily wiped out -- and this was the remounted version after the original 'shoot him in the back' version was deemed unsatisfactory!

Am I alone in thinking this? :confused:

I agree wholeheartedly. Mind you, there were a few good moments later in the film, but this was arguably the best scene. I especially agree with what you say about Kirk's "death" at the end of the scene being better than the one where he actually died.

Kirk should die either saving the ship or going out kamikaze style similar to how his father sacrificed himself on the Kelvin or how Kirk in The Return "died" turning off the Borg machine planet after punching out Picard. Any other death doesn't fit him as a character.

Actually, I'd love it if in either STID or the next film, Orci and Kurtzman found a way to work in a few lines that retcon a version of the events in The Return and the other two novels in the Odyssey trilogy into canon just so Kirk didn't die such a terrible death. That's, however, likely to be wishful thinking on my part.

T'Girl February 7 2013 07:17 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
Quote:

Lance wrote: (Post 7652110)
I especially like the way it feels... completely self contained. You can almost stick that movie on and then stop watching it after Kirk falls out of the big hole in the side of the 'B'.

Many of the movies opening scenes can almost stand alone as mini-movies. TMP right up to the "it heading for Earth." TWOK to where Kirk says "home." ST Eleven to where we see the shuttles escaping and the Narada sheading debris.

ST Eleven would have been so much better if we had only known to walk out of the theater at that point.

:)

BillJ February 7 2013 07:45 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
I find Generations decent enough until Picard gets sucked into the Nexus, then the wheels fall off.

Dale Sams February 7 2013 08:01 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
1) I quite enjoyed Generations. Yes, I'm that one guy.

2) I agree with the OP.

3) I would have changed the ending by either:

A) Have Kirk reappear on the Ent-B, "Ta-daaaa!!"

B) Don't destroy the ENT-D, Kill Picard. Kirk takes command, "Yee-hawwww!!"

Ronald Held February 7 2013 08:02 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
I agree that the first part is the best. I might watch that and jump to Kirk chopping wood.

Cinema Geekly February 7 2013 08:49 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
Personally I think there is an interesting story buried in the John Harriman character.

A capable Starfleet Officer in his own right but he struggles mightily trying to be the guy who follows CAPTAIN KIRK as skipper of the Big E.

I think there could be a great character story hidden in there.

sonak February 7 2013 08:54 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
I enjoy Generations, especially the beginning with Kirk, Scotty, and Chekov. I have read criticisms of the movie all over the place, and they never make sense to me. The most common one is "story flaws" or "plot holes," which are no bigger here than in any other Trek movies. I think a lot of it is disappointment with Kirk's death and nothing more.

trevanian February 7 2013 08:57 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
Quote:

Cinema Geekly wrote: (Post 7653388)
Personally I think there is an interesting story buried in the John Harriman character.

A capable Starfleet Officer in his own right but he struggles mightily trying to be the guy who follows CAPTAIN KIRK as skipper of the Big E.

I think there could be a great character story hidden in there.

That's the single good thing I took away from opening night GENERATIONS, and I think it remains the best TREK-related idea I've had. You have a real LORD JIM here, somebody who is going to be haunted forever by this moment where he just didn't rise to the occasion and will always be thought of as The Guy Who Got Kirk Killed.

Got a huge file on what could have been a good limited series that goes into the political paranoia feel in Fed and SF during SFS and TUC, and how that fuels throwing Harriman to the wolves, dispersing the crew and even burning the name off the E-B's hull, and what it takes to get the Enterprise back in good graces and how Harriman atones and even almost prospers (at least internally) from the effort. Have never read the subsequent Peter David novel because I don't want to see if he went the same route or not.

BillJ February 7 2013 09:34 PM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
There's a great short story by Peter David in the book Enterprise Logs which goes a long way in rehabilitating the character. :techman:

Lance February 8 2013 04:02 AM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
Peter David had a bit of a mission regarding fleshing out the Ent-B crew. His The Captain's Daughter is a recommended read IMO for the extra layers it gives to practically all of them.

Mr. Laser Beam February 8 2013 04:49 AM

Re: Is the opening section of GENS basically the best part of the movi
 
Quote:

Cinema Geekly wrote: (Post 7653388)
Personally I think there is an interesting story buried in the John Harriman character.

A capable Starfleet Officer in his own right but he struggles mightily trying to be the guy who follows CAPTAIN KIRK as skipper of the Big E.

I think there could be a great character story hidden in there.

Exactly. Harriman is not incompetent, he's not a 'weenie'. He's just the new guy. Everyone has to start somewhere. Besides, Harriman would never have been given command of an Enterprise in the first place if he had been a bad captain...

The problem is simply that he isn't Kirk. Therefore, anyone is going to be prejudiced against Harriman for that very reason - the assumption that only Kirk can be a good captain, that anyone else could never measure up. Which is sad and completely untrue, really.

For Harriman's part, at least he has the guts to swallow his pride and ask Kirk for help when the time comes.


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