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Lance February 5 2013 11:19 PM

Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
The way I see it, the ones who have changed the least basically boils down to McCoy, Sulu, and possibly also Captain Pike. As follows:

KIRK: Wasn't born on Earth, didn't even get to meet his father, elevated to the rank of Captain without all that messy business rising through the ranks on ships like the USS Farragut (though, yes, I suppose there's nothing to say he didn't serve on it as part of his exams or something, before the later events of the movie took hold). By contrast, the series bible for TOS makes a point of mentioning that Kirk's dad got to see his son become Captain of the Enterprise before he died. I have no doubt that Kirk Prime is a much more secure personality for having had his father's guidance all those years. Kirk Prime was also described as being a exquisite student at the academy, whereas NuKirk seems to be a bit brasher and less likely to be "a pile of books with legs" (as Gary Mitchell desribed Kirk Prime). VERDICT: the same Kirk, but with broader personality issues.

SPOCK: He's close to our Spock Prime, but I'm not sure Spock Prime would have had that kind of relationship with Uhura (they flirted in TOS, but it wasn't serious - I wonder what it was that pushed New Spock and New Uhura into taking it to the next level?). The death of his mother undoubtedly makes an impact on his life though. VERDICT: as with Kirk, broadly the same but with a few 'issues'.

UHURA: Same as above, really. She's arguably more assertive than TOS Uhura, although "The Search For Spock" shows Uhura Prime in a light that is considerably sassier than anything we got to see her do in TOS itself. VERDICT: Hard to call on this one. She might not have a different personality at all, it's just expressed better in the Abrams movies.

BONES: The same old Leonard 'Bones' McCoy, albeit just a smidge younger than we ever saw him before. Stuff that is only canonised in the new movies (all the stuff about his divorce) was always there as character background in the TOS series bible, it was just never mentioned on-screen (although it was heavily implied at times, and got very close to being canonised in early drafts of "The Way To Eden"). VERDICT: Identical in virtually every way.

CHEKOV: Older (by, what is it, about 4 years or something?) than TOS Chekov, so by extension he hasn't got the same birthday. He's also a bit of a whizzkid, which was kind of implied with Chekov Prime but also kind of denied (Chekov Prime was a bit of a knockabout character at times, happier canoodling with pretty girls than doing his job). VERDICT: I'll call him different. He shares an accent with his Prime counterpart, but not really the same personality as far as I see it.

SCOTTY: Contentious, but Scotty Prime was a very specific character pretty much created by (and influenced by) Jimmy Doohan himself. Likewise, the new Scotty is more or less just a typical Simon Pegg character, but with a Scots accent. He's obviously got the brushstrokes of Scotty Prime, but I can't really see much comparison between the two. VERDICT: different.

SULU: What do we learn about Sulu in the 2009 movie? He's the helmsman. He's oriential. He likes playing with swords. So far, so recognisably Sulu. I'm not sure there's anything different about him other than he's obviously being played by a different actor. Unless the sequel does something major with his character I don't see any divergence at all from his Prime counterpart. VERDICT: same old Sulu.

Finally... PIKE: he's sketched out a bit more than Jeff Hunter's version, but on the face of it I think he's pretty accurate to how I imagine Hunter's Pike would have been most of the time. We saw Pike in "The Cage" at a particular point in his life, dealing with insecurities and wondering if he made the right career choice after all. But underneath it all, I think they are basically the same character: a noble and heroic architype, who is given the added benefit in Abrams' Trek of also being a surrogate father figure to Kirk. VERDICT: not too different.

Your thoughts, ladies and gents? :)

Dale Sams February 5 2013 11:22 PM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
Scotty by far.

BillJ February 5 2013 11:27 PM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
Interesting topic.

But I think it is just too early to tell at this point.

Sindatur February 5 2013 11:30 PM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
Wait, isn't NuCheckov older by about 4 years then Checkov-Prime?

I agree, with what we know so far Bones and Sulu seem the most lik their Prime selves

BillJ February 5 2013 11:31 PM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
Quote:

Sindatur wrote: (Post 7644751)
Wait, isn't NuCheckov older by about 4 years then Checkov-Prime?

He is four years older than his Prime timeline counterpart.

Garak February 5 2013 11:32 PM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
McCoy seemed spot on to me in the last movie. DeForest Kelly resurrected.

Lance February 5 2013 11:38 PM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 7644757)
Quote:

Sindatur wrote: (Post 7644751)
Wait, isn't NuCheckov older by about 4 years then Checkov-Prime?

He is four years older than his Prime timeline counterpart.

My mistake. I mis-remembered the exact details in my OP.

Awesome Possum February 6 2013 12:41 AM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
Quote:

Garak wrote: (Post 7644763)
McCoy seemed spot on to me in the last movie. DeForest Kelly resurrected.

He had the mannerisms, the tone of voice. You would almost think that Kelly's ghost had possessed him so he could play the role again.

Ketrick February 6 2013 03:23 AM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
Quote:

Lance wrote: (Post 7644685)
Finally... PIKE: he's sketched out a bit more than Jeff Hunter's version, but on the face of it I think he's pretty accurate to how I imagine Hunter's Pike would have been most of the time. We saw Pike in "The Cage" at a particular point in his life, dealing with insecurities and wondering if he made the right career choice after all. But underneath it all, I think they are basically the same character: a noble and heroic architype, who is given the added benefit in Abrams' Trek of also being a surrogate father figure to Kirk. VERDICT: not too different.

It's been awhile since I last saw "The Cage", but Prime Pike seemed a lot more brooding, moody, and introverted than Alternate Reality Pike. I think the Prime Pike's characterization in "The Cage" won't change much. Another thing, I cannot imagine Prime Pike ever saying "punch it". It just doesn't fit his personality.

Nerys Myk February 6 2013 03:34 AM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
Quote:

Ketrick wrote: (Post 7645801)
Quote:

Lance wrote: (Post 7644685)
Finally... PIKE: he's sketched out a bit more than Jeff Hunter's version, but on the face of it I think he's pretty accurate to how I imagine Hunter's Pike would have been most of the time. We saw Pike in "The Cage" at a particular point in his life, dealing with insecurities and wondering if he made the right career choice after all. But underneath it all, I think they are basically the same character: a noble and heroic architype, who is given the added benefit in Abrams' Trek of also being a surrogate father figure to Kirk. VERDICT: not too different.

It's been awhile since I last saw "The Cage", but Prime Pike seemed a lot more brooding, moody, and introverted than Alternate Reality Pike. I think the Prime Pike's characterization in "The Cage" won't change much. Another thing, I cannot imagine Prime Pike ever saying "punch it". It just doesn't fit his personality.

Hard to say what Pike was like. In the Cage he had just lost several crewmembers, including his yeoman. That could cause a man to brood and get moody for a bit. The Kirk we see in Season One's earliest episode is probably closer to what Pike was like on the days he didn't lose crewmembers in tragic circumstances that he feels responsible for.

Ketrick February 6 2013 05:01 AM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
Quote:

Nerys Myk wrote: (Post 7645840)
Quote:

Ketrick wrote: (Post 7645801)
Quote:

Lance wrote: (Post 7644685)
Finally... PIKE: he's sketched out a bit more than Jeff Hunter's version, but on the face of it I think he's pretty accurate to how I imagine Hunter's Pike would have been most of the time. We saw Pike in "The Cage" at a particular point in his life, dealing with insecurities and wondering if he made the right career choice after all. But underneath it all, I think they are basically the same character: a noble and heroic architype, who is given the added benefit in Abrams' Trek of also being a surrogate father figure to Kirk. VERDICT: not too different.

It's been awhile since I last saw "The Cage", but Prime Pike seemed a lot more brooding, moody, and introverted than Alternate Reality Pike. I think the Prime Pike's characterization in "The Cage" won't change much. Another thing, I cannot imagine Prime Pike ever saying "punch it". It just doesn't fit his personality.

Hard to say what Pike was like. In the Cage he had just lost several crewmembers, including his yeoman. That could cause a man to brood and get moody for a bit. The Kirk we see in Season One's earliest episode is probably closer to what Pike was like on the days he didn't lose crewmembers in tragic circumstances that he feels responsible for.

You have a point, but even taking the deaths into account Prime Pike seems to me far more like Picard than his alternate reality counterpart does.

ChristopherPike February 6 2013 05:13 AM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
McCoy. Although I don't really agree with how they arrived at that the origin of his nickname. Although his introduction (that of his ex-wife having left him with nothing but his Bones) can be seen as somekind of cinema shorthand to clue an audience in quickly of who he is. In my mind (Yes, I know... fanon isn't canon), McCoy was called "Bones" because of "Sawbones", an old term for a Doctor serving in the military in historical times. Just like "Sparks" would be an electrician or electrical engineering. How would he come by that in a future where legs aren't crudely sawn off on a battlefield? Looking around his sickbay in the Original Series, reveals a lot of antiques related to medicine like metallic operating scalpels on the wall (see Space Seed). He collects such things then and his patients presumably lie around looking at those, thinking he'd much prefer to go back to those old tried and trusted methods, than work with more pain-free gadgets.

I'd despute Scotty the most though... I think he's a different character over there and should've been out there working onboard starships, working his way up the career ladder to become an assistant Chief Engineer, before reassignment to the Enterprise. But instead is in a bit of trouble with his career, for having dabbled with transporter experiments of all things.

M'Sharak February 6 2013 06:11 AM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
Quote:

ChristopherPike wrote: (Post 7646212)
Just like "Sparks" would be an electrician or electrical engineering.

"Sparks" would usually have been a nickname for a radioman or wireless operator. (The "Sparky" always getting rung up by Radar in the MASH TV series would have come by his handle the same way.)

In the old days, before she'd acquired a given name, we might have had "Sparks" Uhura.

lurok February 6 2013 09:25 AM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
I didn't think any of them had changed. Just played by different actors. Though if had to pick one, Sulu needs to shine a little more.

BillJ February 6 2013 01:53 PM

Re: Which character has changed the least in the new universe?
 
Quote:

ChristopherPike wrote: (Post 7646212)
McCoy. Although I don't really agree with how they arrived at that the origin of his nickname. Although his introduction (that of his ex-wife having left him with nothing but his Bones) can be seen as somekind of cinema shorthand to clue an audience in quickly of who he is. In my mind (Yes, I know... fanon isn't canon), McCoy was called "Bones" because of "Sawbones", an old term for a Doctor serving in the military in historical times.

I humbly disagree.

I think the origin that Orci & Kurtzman came up with was brilliant (and those that know me know that I don't use Orci, Kurtzman and brilliant in the same sentence very often). The reason being that no one on the ship called McCoy "Bones" except Kirk. That to me suggests the nickname could be something private between the two men.

As in all things, your mileage may vary. :techman:


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