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-   -   What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=202423)

I am not Spock February 4 2013 03:55 AM

What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
United Earth? United Federation of Planets? I thought 22nd century Trek had a world government! Since when were there separate countries in Star Trek? To me, this is a big screw up.

DonIago February 4 2013 04:13 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
The United States is one nation with 50 states that each have their own flag.

I fail to see the problem unless you have more specific evidence than flags.

SG-17 February 4 2013 04:13 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
Even though there was a United Earth, each region still retained its independent identity. Much as how Wales, Scotland, and England still have their identities and how each of the 50 United States have their own identities.

Maybe the European Union would be a better analog, as we don't know the provincial government structure of the United Earth government. Would the United States still have a President, Congress, and Supreme Court? Would each of the states still have Governors and and State Legislatures? Would there still be county officials and city majors? I would assume yes.

Antni February 4 2013 04:19 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
Quote:

SG-17 wrote: (Post 7635832)
Even though there was a United Earth, each region still retained its independent identity. Much as how Wales, Scotland, and England still have their identities and how each of the 50 United States have their own identities.

Maybe the European Union would be a better analog, as we don't know the provincial government structure of the United Earth government. Would the United States still have a President, Congress, and Supreme Court? Would each of the states still have Governors and and State Legislatures? Would there still be county officials and city majors? I would assume yes.

This ^

Plus being a Brit i quite enjoy seeing our country in these trailers and knowing even though we're a United Earth and part of the Federation my flag will still define which part of earth i'm from.

Admiral Buzzkill February 4 2013 04:54 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
What in canon establishes that nations don't exist on Earth in Kirk's time?

I am not Spock February 4 2013 04:55 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
There may still be regional governors in different territories, even though there's a Federation president. Just like you have state, and federal, governments now.

I am not Spock February 4 2013 04:56 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
Quote:

My Name Is Legion wrote: (Post 7636000)
What in canon establishes that nations don't exist on Earth in Kirk's time?

I don't think anything is said about it in Kirk's time. It does kind of go against TNG though, when they're talking about the flag of the former USA, an old nation state, pre-United Earth (in the episode The Royale, I think?)

BillJ February 4 2013 05:04 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
Quote:

I am not Spock wrote: (Post 7636021)
Quote:

My Name Is Legion wrote: (Post 7636000)
What in canon establishes that nations don't exist on Earth in Kirk's time?

I don't think anything is said about it in Kirk's time. It does kind of go against TNG though, when they're talking about the flag of the former USA, an old nation state, pre-United Earth (in the episode The Royale, I think?)

The Last Outpost, Picard makes nation flags sound like a thing of the past. Which really makes no sense.

Franklin February 4 2013 05:17 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
For what it's worth, there is a UFP flag (maybe UN, but it's a darker blue) between the two Union Jacks. All government arguments are hypothetical, so putting them aside, the Union Jack may still be used for decoration or as a symbol of a traditional sub-national or regional union. If Scotty can wear a kilt, then I think Brits could still fly a Union Jack.

Also, given the attitude some Brits had towards the Common Market and now have towards the EU, it's quite possible in Trek's time the UK is the last holdout sovereign nation on a united Earth. They probably even still use the pound. ;)

C.E. Evans February 4 2013 06:08 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
Given that many of today's cities still exist during the time of Trek, I would gather the same is true for the countries they're located in, with flags used solely to symbolize the regions rather than the governments. An analogy for U.S. citizens would be the flags for the individual states--like the TNG gang, most of us are aware of them, can even remember what some of them represent, but regard them as little more than decorations.

I am not Spock February 4 2013 11:24 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
Quote:

Franklin wrote: (Post 7636099)
For what it's worth, there is a UFP flag (maybe UN, but it's a darker blue) between the two Union Jacks. All government arguments are hypothetical, so putting them aside, the Union Jack may still be used for decoration or as a symbol of a traditional sub-national or regional union. If Scotty can wear a kilt, then I think Brits could still fly a Union Jack.

Also, given the attitude some Brits had towards the Common Market and now have towards the EU, it's quite possible in Trek's time the UK is the last holdout sovereign nation on a united Earth. They probably even still use the pound. ;)


The last holdout for United Earth was Australia, according to the TNG ep 'Attached' ;)

Shazam! February 4 2013 11:36 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
The bigger question is why they are upside down.

King Daniel Into Darkness February 4 2013 11:54 AM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
I have no problem with the UK still existing in the future. Although shouldn't there be a United Earth flag too? The UK, part of United Earth, part of the United Federation of Planets? DS9 did the same thing, treating Earth and the Federation as one and the same, when it should be just one member.

Also, loving the new post-Vulcan UFP symbol. Making me wonder who the real villain in this story is going to be...

Relayer1 February 4 2013 12:29 PM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
The currently accepted (but not necessarily historic) terminology is that it is called the Union Flag, only known as the Union Jack when flown on a warship.

Your mileage may vary...

lurok February 4 2013 12:42 PM

Re: What's with all the Union Jacks in the trailer?
 
Expect tea drinking as well. And scones.


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