The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Star Trek - Original Series (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=38)
-   -   FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=201448)

Mister Atoz January 25 2013 02:13 AM

FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
I have found two bad remastering mistakes so far, and as luck would have it, they are in sister episodes. They are mostly editorial errors, and they are both images depicted on a viewing screen. I'm looking at Blu-Ray Season 2, Doomsday Machine and Immunity Syndrome.

mistake 1

Doomsday: Kirk is on the Constellation and is getting his view screen working. Washburn says "Try it now, Captain." Kirk says "Yes I think...What the devil's going on?"

The error occurs here. In the original version, the cut to the view screen immediately shows the Enterprise firing at the Doomsday cone. That is what Kirk is reacting to.

In the remastered version, the view screen shows static interference on the screen FIRST, then it fades to the Enterprise and the cone. In the remastered cut, Kirk would not have any reason to say "What the devil's going on?" because he hasn't seen the Enterprise yet. Furthermore, the remastered version shows the screen with only the Enterprise in it, firing phasers, which weakens the logic of Kirk's reaction still further! Then later the cone comes into the screen view. Opinions on this? I think it hurts the scene a lot.

mistake 2

In Immunity, just prior to the appearance of the hole in space, Kirk says "scanners on". In the original version, it cuts to the view screen -- stars only. Then later, as you recall, Spock says "I would assume....that." At this point, the hole in space is first shown.

The error in the remastered version? Kirk says "scanners on" and the hole in space already appears on the screen, a full 18 seconds before it is supposed to appear.

I would welcome the submission of any other known remastering errors (but not aesthetic "mistakes" in the effects -- unless you feel you must.) Paramount, can you please repair my disks? David? Mike? Lucille? Anyone? ;o)

thanks

~ Mr Atoz

plynch January 25 2013 03:25 AM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Having shots of the Enterprise look all cartoony when the rest of the show is live-action.

YARN January 25 2013 03:47 AM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Quote:

plynch wrote: (Post 7587538)
Having shots of the Enterprise look all cartoony when the rest of the show is live-action.

The nacelle cap problem. Ughh. They should have gone back and fixed all the shots.

jayrath January 25 2013 05:40 AM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Calling it "remastering" in the first place. Remastering is reorganizing existing elements, not introducing new material.

plynch January 25 2013 05:44 AM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Quote:

YARN wrote: (Post 7587679)
Quote:

plynch wrote: (Post 7587538)
Having shots of the Enterprise look all cartoony when the rest of the show is live-action.

The nacelle cap problem. Ughh. They should have gone back and fixed all the shots.

Rear endcap ball inconsistency, or front spikes?

Maurice January 25 2013 07:26 AM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Mister Atoz points out exactly why it's dangerous to just change shots without examining the context in which those shots appear. That's a different issue than the quality of the replacement shots.

Mister Atoz January 25 2013 07:29 AM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Yeah, can you please spell out what you mean by Nacelle cap problem?

thx

~ Atoz


Quote:

plynch wrote: (Post 7588204)
Quote:

YARN wrote: (Post 7587679)
Quote:

plynch wrote: (Post 7587538)
Having shots of the Enterprise look all cartoony when the rest of the show is live-action.

The nacelle cap problem. Ughh. They should have gone back and fixed all the shots.

Rear endcap ball inconsistency, or front spikes?


boobatuba January 25 2013 07:40 AM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Quote:

Mister Atoz wrote: (Post 7587205)
mistake 1

Doomsday: Kirk is on the Constellation and is getting his view screen working. Washburn says "Try it now, Captain." Kirk says "Yes I think...What the devil's going on?"

The error occurs here. In the original version, the cut to the view screen immediately shows the Enterprise firing at the Doomsday cone. That is what Kirk is reacting to.

In the remastered version, the view screen shows static interference on the screen FIRST, then it fades to the Enterprise and the cone. In the remastered cut, Kirk would not have any reason to say "What the devil's going on?" because he hasn't seen the Enterprise yet. Furthermore, the remastered version shows the screen with only the Enterprise in it, firing phasers, which weakens the logic of Kirk's reaction still further! Then later the cone comes into the screen view. Opinions on this? I think it hurts the scene a lot.

How do you know the sequence of events isn't as follows?

1. Viewscreen clears - Kirk sees Enterprise attacking weapon and reacts
2. Viewscreen shorts again back into "search" mode or whatever - camera perspective changes to viewscreen
3. Viewscreen again clears.

Calling this a "mistake" doesn't really wash for me. Kirk clearly sees SOMETHING and reacts, so obviously the viewscreen showed something, then fuzzed out again.

Mister Atoz January 25 2013 09:26 AM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Dear Boobatuba ~

You can pretend anything you like in terms of what you think Kirk sees on the screen, but the original version has much more impact because it cuts from Kirk looking at the screen in astonishment -- to the screen showing clearly what is happening with the Enterprise in imminent danger. In the new version, the whole thing is fuzzy, mushy, unclear. The new version makes it seem like he's saying "What the devil is going on?" in response to a fuzzy, non-working screen display!

For a first time viewer of the ep, the whole meaning of the edit has dramatically changed. It's a pretty important cut, too, because it leads up to Kirk ordering Spock to relieve Decker of command.

regards

~ Mr Atoz



Quote:

boobatuba wrote: (Post 7588447)
Quote:

Mister Atoz wrote: (Post 7587205)
mistake 1

Doomsday: Kirk is on the Constellation and is getting his view screen working. Washburn says "Try it now, Captain." Kirk says "Yes I think...What the devil's going on?"

The error occurs here. In the original version, the cut to the view screen immediately shows the Enterprise firing at the Doomsday cone. That is what Kirk is reacting to.

In the remastered version, the view screen shows static interference on the screen FIRST, then it fades to the Enterprise and the cone. In the remastered cut, Kirk would not have any reason to say "What the devil's going on?" because he hasn't seen the Enterprise yet. Furthermore, the remastered version shows the screen with only the Enterprise in it, firing phasers, which weakens the logic of Kirk's reaction still further! Then later the cone comes into the screen view. Opinions on this? I think it hurts the scene a lot.

How do you know the sequence of events isn't as follows?

1. Viewscreen clears - Kirk sees Enterprise attacking weapon and reacts
2. Viewscreen shorts again back into "search" mode or whatever - camera perspective changes to viewscreen
3. Viewscreen again clears.

Calling this a "mistake" doesn't really wash for me. Kirk clearly sees SOMETHING and reacts, so obviously the viewscreen showed something, then fuzzed out again.


boobatuba January 25 2013 10:36 AM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Quote:

Mister Atoz wrote: (Post 7588609)
Dear Boobatuba ~

You can pretend anything you like in terms of what you think Kirk sees on the screen, but the original version has much more impact because it cuts from Kirk looking at the screen in astonishment -- to the screen showing clearly what is happening with the Enterprise in imminent danger. In the new version, the whole thing is fuzzy, mushy, unclear. The new version makes it seem like he's saying "What the devil is going on?" in response to a fuzzy, non-working screen display!

For a first time viewer of the ep, the whole meaning of the edit has dramatically changed. It's a pretty important cut, too, because it leads up to Kirk ordering Spock to relieve Decker of command.

regards

~ Mr Atoz

I don't disagree that the scene is better before the change in what the viewscreen shows. But that's far from it being a "mistake," which is what you're alleging. It's just a different interpretation.

And, seriously? The few seconds of the viewscreen being fuzzy makes it harder to believe that Kirk would call the Enterprise to find out what's going on and reprimand Decker for putting his ship in danger when he finds out? Umm...he still sees that, regardless of if it's immediately or in a few seconds.

Is it really so hard to imagine that he says "what the devil's going on" because he makes something out briefly before the screen finally kicks in fully repaired? Why does he say, "Yes, I think..."? Could it possibly be that he's making some adjustments? Could he see the sensor readings of the Enterprise and machine in close proximity on some control panel and then look up to confirm the readings? I think you're picking one too many nits, here.

BoredShipCapt'n January 25 2013 12:07 PM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
^
Perhaps, but choosing to make this change is a bit of an intrusion by the "restorationist" into the role of the writer or director, because altering the subject of the eyeline-match shot alters the narrative, however slightly.

boobatuba January 25 2013 12:20 PM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Quote:

BoredShipCapt'n wrote: (Post 7588831)
^
Perhaps, but choosing to make this change is a bit of an intrusion by the "restorationist" into the role of the writer or director, because altering the subject of the eyeline-match shot alters the narrative, however slightly.

A bit of an intrusion, sure. I'll agree with that completely.

A "mistake"? No, I won't go that far.

Mister Atoz January 25 2013 01:16 PM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Quote:

boobatuba wrote: (Post 7588861)
Quote:

BoredShipCapt'n wrote: (Post 7588831)
^
Perhaps, but choosing to make this change is a bit of an intrusion by the "restorationist" into the role of the writer or director, because altering the subject of the eyeline-match shot alters the narrative, however slightly.

A bit of an intrusion, sure. I'll agree with that completely.

A "mistake"? No, I won't go that far.




Hmmm, interesting discussion! Well, you're entitled to your opinion (and your avatar) Boobatuba, but the remastering team had no right to so significantly change the meaning and impact of that cut. The music score from genius Sol Kaplan tells you exactly what's supposed to be happening -- WHAM!!!! In a microsecond we are whacked by the visual snapshot of the Enterprise at the maw of the cone.

The remastering denies the visual impact of that cut, and instead puts "video static" where there was none before!!! Call me a purist if you must, but that's some pretty major tampering.


regards

~ Mr Atoz

BoredShipCapt'n January 25 2013 02:25 PM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 

Redfern January 25 2013 02:47 PM

Re: FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes
 
Now somebody should "'Shop" a pair of silicone implants onto Nomad's casing and caption the image to read, "Falsies! Falsies!!!"

Sincerely,

Bill


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:18 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.