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-   -   Spock and Pike (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=201160)

Melakon January 22 2013 10:52 PM

Spock and Pike
 
Why didn't Spock mind-meld with injured Captain Pike in "The Menagerie"?

Mendez shows frustration that Pike can't reach out, no one can reach in, and that his mind is working normally.

In terms of production numbers, "Dagger of the Mind" was apparently filmed about 4 or 5 episodes before the "Menagerie" framing story, and originally aired 2 weeks earlier.

So it had been previously established that Spock had this ability.

Was it unmentioned only because they were uncertain of actual airdates in those days?

Dale Sams January 22 2013 10:55 PM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
What would he mind-meld about?

stationzebra January 22 2013 10:56 PM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
mind meld for what reason?

Melakon January 22 2013 11:09 PM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
Well, I was originally thinking they could figure out what Pike was agitated about, which frustrated Mendez. But since Spock himself was the cause of Pike's agitation, Spock could have simply lied about the results of the mindmeld, or even faked the whole thing.

Though it could have had other uses, since Pike couldn't even communicate whether he wanted someone to leave him the hell alone for five minutes.

It's rough not having the episodes in my library anymore, so I could think these things out before making a stupid post.

plynch January 22 2013 11:11 PM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 7575508)
Though it could have had other uses, since Pike couldn't even communicate whether he wanted someone to leave him the hell alone for five minutes.

That was three "boops."

Lance January 22 2013 11:42 PM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
Pike in a wheelchair seems harsher in hindsight. What surprised me is that the actor who played him had a speaking role as an Ensign in "Arena" later in the season, and without the aging make-up (and with dialogue) I reckon he was a reasonably close match for Jeff Hunter, so I don't see why the producers felt the need to cover him up at all. Mind you, I suppose they might have felt that the stock footage from The Cage would have made it much too obvious that it very evidently isn't the same guy, even though his voice is kind of similar (to my ears anyway).

SchwEnt January 22 2013 11:47 PM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
This post leads to me question why Pike didn't have a telepathic assistant/caregiver.

Telepathic species, Vulcans included, were known in TOS.
Wasn't there some kindly telepathic race that could have served as aide to Pike, contacting his mind and expressing his thoughts, helping Pike to connect to the outside world?

If medical technology wasn't able to overcome the obstacles, an empathic or telepathic species would be helpful to someone in Pike's predicament.

Melakon January 22 2013 11:55 PM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
Maybe there are retconned Betazoids hanging around the starbase.

BillJ January 23 2013 01:10 AM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 7575508)

It's rough not having the episodes in my library anymore, so I could think these things out before making a stupid post.

Not stupid, I've been wondering the same thing myself for years. :techman:

Redfern January 23 2013 01:14 AM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
Pike's injuries and the nature of his chair crop up every so often and some interesting ideas get tossed around the threads. Someone suggested this chair was something of a "stop gap" to stabilize his condition before more sophisticated devices could be employed, like a more refined communications interface. Unfortunately, the way McCoy talks, there's no way to tie more directly into Pike's brain to allow that. And, if they could, it would "weaken" Spock's desperation to get Pike to Talos IV where he can live out his years "unfettered" by his injuries.

In short, if Pike could have talked, the "mystery" as to why Spock would seemingly go AWOL is negated. In short, it's the "McGuffin", a motivating factor for the narrative. Or, if one is cynical, it's a plot contrivance. Maybe the nature of the Delta ray damage made normal interfacing considerably more problematic.

Pulling Next Gen' into the equation, how long has the Federation had relations with Betazed? If, barely a century, there might not be too many of them around, yet (at the time of TOS). Vulcans? Well, later Spock was mind-melding with everything this side of the galactic core, but at the time of "Dagger of the Mind", Spock spoke of it in hushed tones, it being a rather private thing, almost as secretive as Pon Farr. So maybe Vulcans in general were not that willing to offer their services.

Sincerely,

Bill

Melakon January 23 2013 01:28 AM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
And Spock usually didn't do a mindmeld without explicit consent. Pike could have just boop-boop-a-dooped him.


BillJ January 23 2013 01:43 AM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
Quote:

Redfern wrote: (Post 7576228)

In short, if Pike could have talked, the "mystery" as to why Spock would seemingly go AWOL is negated. In short, it's the "McGuffin", a motivating factor for the narrative. Or, if one is cynical, it's a plot contrivance. Maybe the nature of the Delta ray damage made normal interfacing considerably more problematic.

Out of universe, of course it's a plot contrivance. I think Melakon was likely trying to fit in the events of the episode with what else we've seen done.

As far as Next Gen goes, I thought Betazed was one of the Federations founding members? Though I could be mis-remembering that part. EDIT: Definitely wrong on this point. Memory Alpha gives a 2273 join date.

Mister Atoz January 23 2013 02:58 AM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
Melakon, you have brought up an excellent point and your analysis is valid.

Mr Atoz

Melakon January 23 2013 03:11 AM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
BillJ figured out what I was aiming for. I was trying to put it down fast while I had the thought, but my keyboard is a piece of crap with sticking keys and requires both hands to press the spacebar, and I can't type as fast as I used to (70wpm on a manual typewriter).

Redfern January 23 2013 12:09 PM

Re: Spock and Pike
 
I tend to "weave" between "narrative universe" and "real life" production even if the thrust of the discussion is meant to be just one of those facers.

As for typing speed, don't apologize. Took typing classes nearly 30 years ago, but to this day, I'm still something of a "hunt and pecker". (Wait; that doesn't sound right!) An early childhood stroke left me with slightly diminished motor skills in my left arm. Thankfully I wasn't left slogging about like Igor for some mad scientist.

Sincerely,

Bill


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