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Gotham Central January 11 2013 03:52 AM

Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Did the polity that controlled Vulcan space have a name? One of the more peculiar things about Enterprise was that the species that would eventually become part of the Federation did not seem to have organized "states" with borders in the same way that they do in the 23rd and 24th centuries. For instance Enterprise seemed to wander around without ever encountering the same type of political rigidity (i.e. border crossing, patrol ships etc) that dominated other Treks. Other than the Andorian Empire (which never seemed clearly defined) and the Klingon Empire (and of course the distant Romulan Star Empire) few political entities are defined.

R. Star January 11 2013 04:47 AM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Apparently some of the books call it the Confederacy of Vulcan if that's what you're getting at.

Sci January 16 2013 06:05 AM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7518280)
Apparently some of the books call it the Confederacy of Vulcan if that's what you're getting at.

Yeah, ENT: Kobayashi Maru, The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing, and To Brave the Storm establish the Vulcan polity to be named the Confederacy of Vulcan.

There are references to Vulcan and Andorian borders in numerous ENT eps, especially "Cease Fire" and the Kir'Shara trilogy.

In a lot of ways, ENT's depiction of borders in space is reasonable. Realistically, any "borders" claimed in interstellar space would be incredibly permeable, and actual territorial control would be limited to those areas adjacent to star systems and to starbases.

Gotham Central January 16 2013 06:58 PM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Quote:

Sci wrote: (Post 7542448)
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7518280)
Apparently some of the books call it the Confederacy of Vulcan if that's what you're getting at.

Yeah, ENT: Kobayashi Maru, The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing, and To Brave the Storm establish the Vulcan polity to be named the Confederacy of Vulcan.

There are references to Vulcan and Andorian borders in numerous ENT eps, especially "Cease Fire" and the Kir'Shara trilogy.

In a lot of ways, ENT's depiction of borders in space is reasonable. Realistically, any "borders" claimed in interstellar space would be incredibly permeable, and actual territorial control would be limited to those areas adjacent to star systems and to starbases.


The depiction of terriroties in Enterprise is a bit different than they way it appears in all subsequent series.

You would think that Earth would have fallen within a Vulcan sphere of influence but the Vulcans don't seem to do much in the way of protecting that sphere in the same way that the Federation will a century later. Indeed Enterprise seems to wander around freely in everyone's respective space without being challenged until their reach an important planet.

One of the things that I find interesting about the Vulcans is that they do not appear to have much of an "empire" in that you rarely heard about Vulcan controlled planets beyond Vulcan itself and their listening post/monastary. I suppose one might argue that the Vulcans were not an expansionist society like the Humans and Andorians. But that does not totally square with the depiction of them reiging in Earth's ambitions for nearly a centruy after first contact. It might have been interesting to have Enterprise encounter another world where the Vulcans held stewardship.

Christopher January 16 2013 08:39 PM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
The Vulcans of Enterprise were very much like Cold War-era America -- a society that didn't claim other nations as its territory, yet wielded a strong, far-reaching, paternalistic influence over them in the belief that it was serving their best interests as well as its own. The Vulcan High Command no doubt saw its role as a peacekeeping one, and I think we can safely speculate that the High Command's military presence in this region was the main thing keeping Klingon territory from overrunning Earth in the 21st and early 22nd centuries. But their protection could be heavyhanded and often condescending.

R. Star January 16 2013 08:54 PM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Yet during the Xindi arc and the alternate future of Twilight the Vulcans seemed more than happy to let the Xindi genocide the humans. I wouldn't call that a "paternalistic influence."

Nerys Myk January 16 2013 09:00 PM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7544803)
Yet during the Xindi arc and the alternate future of Twilight the Vulcans seemed more than happy to let the Xindi genocide the humans. I wouldn't call that a "paternalistic influence."

Hey, they told them not to leave the house.

lurok January 16 2013 09:14 PM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
George.

Sci January 17 2013 08:44 AM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7544803)
Yet during the Xindi arc and the alternate future of Twilight the Vulcans seemed more than happy to let the Xindi genocide the humans. I wouldn't call that a "paternalistic influence."

There is absolutely no contradiction between seeking to establish a neo-imperialist hegemony over other cultures by turning them into client states, and being willing to stand by and allow third parties to destroy those client states if you think doing so is more beneficial to you than saving your client state would be.

The Confederacy of Vulcan during the ENT and pre-ENT era is very much in the neo-imperialist mode. They won't annex your world, but they'll wield so much influence over your government that you'd swear the planet was being run out of the Vulcan Embassy.

teacake January 19 2013 01:48 PM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
The Confederacy of Vulcan sounds incredibly stupid.

Christopher January 19 2013 05:29 PM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 7559245)
The Confederacy of Vulcan sounds incredibly stupid.

Why? Despite its historical resonance to Americans, "confederacy" is just a slightly different way of saying "federation." They're both from Latin foedus, meaning a league, covenant, or treaty (related to the word for faith or trust). The only difference is that "confederacy" or "confederation" adds the Latin prefix for "together." So one is a group of states joined in a league, and the other is a group of states joined together in a league.

Anyway, the books' "Confederacy of Vulcan" is no doubt a nod to the "Planetary Confederation of 40 Eridani" from Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual. They also refer to "The United Planets of Tellar" as a nod to the SFTM's "United Planets of 61 Cygni."

Skywalker January 19 2013 05:47 PM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Besides, it's likely just a translation of whatever "Confederacy of Vulcan" is in the Vulcan language.

Sci January 19 2013 07:01 PM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Quote:

Skywalker wrote: (Post 7559764)
Besides, it's likely just a translation of whatever "Confederacy of Vulcan" is in the Vulcan language.

Exactly. Just like the Republic of Chile's real name is actually "la República de Chile," or the Russian Federation's real name is actually "Rossiyskaya Federatsiya."

marksound January 19 2013 07:17 PM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Quote:

Gotham Central wrote: (Post 7518064)
Did the polity that controlled Vulcan space have a name?

Lester. Tattooed on the back of the neck.

Christopher January 19 2013 08:34 PM

Re: Did Vulcan space have a name?
 
Quote:

Sci wrote: (Post 7560058)
Exactly. Just like the Republic of Chile's real name is actually "la República de Chile," or the Russian Federation's real name is actually "Rossiyskaya Federatsiya."

Or the People's Republic of China's real name is 中华人民共和国. ;)


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