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-   -   TMP on Blu-Ray (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=199552)

Flake January 7 2013 09:54 PM

TMP on Blu-Ray
 
I am so relieved we got the original cut of The Motion Picture on Blu-Ray instead of the Director Edition abomination that came out a decade ago. The original cinema release from 1979 is the definitive cut of TMP and no one should tinker with it. It is what it is and shouldn't have been messed with.

I am just glad that Paramount had the usual foresight to render the new DE effects in SD thus sparing us from its HD release. If someone from Paramount reads this, please ensure you never let some fool looking for a quick buck talk you into remastering the DE for the undoubted future blu-ray special uber edition. It is not broken, it does not need fixing, it is what it is and we love it.

The best thing that could happen for any future TMP release would be to go back to original camera negative and rebuild the movie from there using the exact same system CBS digital are using on TNG right now. Imagine those wonderful effects recomposited with 21st century technology... the original elements but without noise/matte lines etc NO NEW CGI, just the original but better.

OH and please Paramount, when you re-re-re release TMP on bluray please please don't scrub the grain off. DNR SUCKS. Keep the grain intact, scan at 8k or 16k or whatever and do it right next time. Just ask CBS Digital to do it! (Not HTV) ;)

BeatleJWOL January 7 2013 11:15 PM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
Ouch. There's absolutely no reason that both couldn't be included in a deluxe set.

Oh, but for recomposited Trek films, though...

Maurice January 8 2013 12:02 AM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
The original effects elements probably don't exist at this point.

Mr. Laser Beam January 8 2013 12:09 AM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
I vastly prefer the DE over the theatrical cut.

Fortunately, the DE's new effects only need to be re-rendered for HD resolution. Not done all new from scratch. AFAIK, re-rendering the DE's new effects would be like recompiling a computer program. They can simply work with the existing files, they don't have to create new effects all over again.

Right?

Marlonius January 8 2013 06:35 AM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7501882)
I vastly prefer the DE over the theatrical cut.

Fortunately, the DE's new effects only need to be re-rendered for HD resolution. Not done all new from scratch. AFAIK, re-rendering the DE's new effects would be like recompiling a computer program. They can simply work with the existing files, they don't have to create new effects all over again.

Right?

I'm with you, and I hope you're right. DE for me all the way.

trevanian January 8 2013 06:48 AM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
Quote:

Maurice wrote: (Post 7501846)
The original effects elements probably don't exist at this point.

Yeah, didn't an old friend of ours hear that Trumbull wound up throwing a lot of TMP vfx elements away because of space limitations around the time of BLADE RUNNER? That still puts the blame on Paramount, since they should have wanted all that stuff to store in-house to repurpose.

But that also explains why using stock elements in TWOK looked so bad in the theater, since I'm guessing they were just a copy from the TMP print rather than recomposited.

Recomposited TOS and theatrical TMP would be the bee's knees, that's for sure. And in this dimension I inhabit, about as likely as seeing Welles original cut of THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS.

Something to consider as far as re-rendering the TMP cg at higher rez ... it don't look that hot in SD ... do you really want to see something that doesn't stand up to side-by-side comparison with the original model shots in SD to be viewed in HD? It's only going to point up the failings -- no, let's be generous, call it the limitations -- of the DE CG that much more.

Flake January 8 2013 12:08 PM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
Quote:

Maurice wrote: (Post 7501846)
The original effects elements probably don't exist at this point.

Well, in TNG they have had to use two elements from TMP thus far, the Klingon ships and the V-Ger transformation effect for Tin Man. They found the VFX elements and rescanned/recomped in HD. So *maybe* they are around somewhere? Wishful thinking I know but they could be out there in a salt mine or something.

Flake January 8 2013 12:44 PM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
Quote:

trevanian wrote: (Post 7503358)
Quote:

Maurice wrote: (Post 7501846)
The original effects elements probably don't exist at this point.

Yeah, didn't an old friend of ours hear that Trumbull wound up throwing a lot of TMP vfx elements away because of space limitations around the time of BLADE RUNNER? That still puts the blame on Paramount, since they should have wanted all that stuff to store in-house to repurpose.

But that also explains why using stock elements in TWOK looked so bad in the theater, since I'm guessing they were just a copy from the TMP print rather than recomposited.

If he did throw them out, then thats a shame but as I posted above TNG used TMP effects and they appeared to be able to go back to original elements in both 1987 and 1990 and now again in 2012 for the HD Remaster so some if not all the VFX elements still exist somewhere.

I reckon the reason they didn't recomp the TMP shots in TWOK was just to save money and the tech in 1981/82 may not have advanced very far from 78/79 so they may have seen no need to remake it again.

Therin of Andor January 8 2013 01:00 PM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
Quote:

Flake wrote: (Post 7501114)
It is not broken, it does not need fixing, it is what it is and we love it.

Who's "we"?

ST:TMP is my favourite movie of all time. It made me the ST fan I am today. But we can't speak for all.

But, for me... the Rhandarite ensign's line, expressing concern about Will Decker, is conspicuously missing from the theatrical cut. Originally, we only knew of the scene via the novelization and comic adaptation, or by ordering the script from Lincoln Enterprises. US fans finally got to see it in the US TV version, then the world, at looooong last, when the "Special Longer Version" reached home video. Eliminated again when TMP came to widescreen VHS for a boxed set, it was also finally included in the Director's cut DVD.

Billy Van Zandt put in so many months standing around the set in that alien makeup and yellow contacts. Imagine how he must have felt on premiere night, when that one meagre line had been dumped.

Spock's tears for Vejur (as the novelization calls the intruder) is also such an important milestone in the evolution of Spock. When I see the theatrical version now, I yearn for that scene.

I have no problem with multiple versions existing of TMP and it would be wonderful for someone to have another go at "completing" the movie that was raced to the Smithsonian Institute for the gala premiere. I really enjoyed the DE DVD release! Hearing the then-elderly Robert Wise discuss the film with pride, and discuss the changes, on the commentary was amazing.

By the way, if you turn English closed-captions on, on the DVD DE, the transcriber mishears Robert Wise - and has him stating that the premiere was at the "Swiss Odeon". Hilarious.

RoJoHen January 8 2013 02:02 PM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7501882)
I vastly prefer the DE over the theatrical cut.

From what I've seen in my years on this board, most people prefer the DE.

And so do I. The theatrical cut puts me to sleep. The DE has much better pacing.

Flake January 8 2013 02:08 PM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
Ok I should not have said we, it is of course my opinion :)

I had the theatrical cut on VHS and thats the version I grew up with, I did not like the changes made on the DE particularly the added sound effects and the removal of the computer voice & old alert klaxon.

Some of the new CGI was an 'improvement' I admit. The new shots I like most are the new Vulcan shots (which fit more into the Trek universe and Vulcan as we know it) and the shots of the Enterprise in the Vejur 'Brain Complex' which where much better than the original poor matte paintings of the Enterprise.

I have not seen the extended version and I don't know how to see it or where to find it.

I was just stating that I personally preferred to see the theatrical cut of TMP because I felt the DE was inferior. The definitive version of TMP is the cut shown in cinemas... if Paramount did release only the DE in HD then it would be Lucas-esque and a mistake because then we only have the VHS of TMP to see the original version !

RoJoHen January 8 2013 02:11 PM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
It's been so long since I've seen the theatrical cut that I don't even know what the differences are between it and the DE. I just know that the theatrical cut could never hold my attention. I remember seeing the DE for the first time and thinking, "Wow, this movie is actually pretty great!" I couldn't tell you why.

Oso Blanco January 8 2013 02:30 PM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
Quote:

Flake wrote: (Post 7501114)
I am so relieved we got the original cut of The Motion Picture on Blu-Ray instead of the Director Edition abomination that came out a decade ago.

I absolutely agree.

Quote:

Flake wrote: (Post 7501114)
The original cinema release from 1979 is the definitive cut of TMP

I like the SLV better. I'd love to have it in widescreen and HD.

Quote:

Flake wrote: (Post 7501114)
The best thing that could happen for any future TMP release would be to go back to original camera negative and rebuild the movie from there using the exact same system CBS digital are using on TNG right now.

I wouldn't even accept this recompositing of the fx shots. It doesn't feel right in TNG and I don't think that TMP really needs something like that, the fx should all be available on film and therefore be ready for HD.

Quote:

Flake wrote: (Post 7501114)
OH and please Paramount, when you re-re-re release TMP on bluray please please don't scrub the grain off. DNR SUCKS.

Agreed.

Maurice January 8 2013 05:56 PM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
Quote:

Flake wrote: (Post 7503856)
Quote:

Maurice wrote: (Post 7501846)
The original effects elements probably don't exist at this point.

Well, in TNG they have had to use two elements from TMP thus far, the Klingon ships and the V-Ger transformation effect for Tin Man. They found the VFX elements and rescanned/recomped in HD. So *maybe* they are around somewhere? Wishful thinking I know but they could be out there in a salt mine or something.

The Klingon ship in Heart of Glory was easy...they simply had to matte out the other two ships. As to the V'ger effect used in Tin Man, that I can't tell you. It looks like they had the effect separate of the Earth background, yeah, but just because they had that shot (which is itself a composite) doesn't mean they have all or even many of the elements.

milo bloom January 8 2013 06:12 PM

Re: TMP on Blu-Ray
 
SLV or go home.

Seriously, there's so many character beats that are hardwired to my memory of that movie, watching it so many times on VHS, that no current version seems right.

I would gladly pay good money for a deluxe three version Bluray set: theatrical, DE and SLV.


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