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JirinPanthosa December 27 2012 04:11 AM

Vorta telepathic abilities
 
Why did they ditch the ability of the Vorta to telepathically shoot balls of energy?

There's no reason to think that collar was the cause of her being able to shoot telpathic balls of energy, in fact it was confirmed just to be a locking mechanism. So why didn't they give the Vorta that ability later in the series?

Is it some kind of market research/budget thing or did they just want to reinvent the Vorta but keep the makeup?

AllStarEntprise December 27 2012 04:49 AM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
The telepathic abilities of the Vorta go in the same pile as why that one female Vorta did not bow in reverence to Odo or address him as a Founder.

The development crew for DS9 hadn't thought out the Dominion that far out yet as far as season 2. It's on one of the special features of the DVD.

Bry_Sinclair December 28 2012 05:00 AM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
I miss the telekinetic blasts. It would have been something great to explore with the Vorta.

As for Eris not bowing to Odo, she was on a deep cover mission to get into the AQ and learn more about Starfleet. Grovelling at his feet would give the game away.

Timo December 28 2012 07:45 PM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
Not that we'd actually have confirmation that Eris really had that ability. Everything else about her was fake anyway - so for all we know, she had a phaser hidden in her body, along with a communicator to keep in touch with home base, a phase inverter to walk through forcefields, etc.

Not a big feat if she were actually a Changeling. Which would make quite a bit of sense, and would explain the ease with which she failed to show deference to Odo. :devil:

Timo Saloniemi

TheRoyalFamily December 28 2012 10:15 PM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
Maybe only certain Vorta can do it, either "naturally," or only certain individuals/strains that are designed for certain missions.

Maybe every Vorta has some degree of telekinetic abilities, but not all are as proficient as others.

Maybe every Vorta can do it, and we only see Eris actually use the ability. How many different Vorta do we see in the show, that do anything besides stand around as extras?

Pavonis December 28 2012 11:49 PM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
The Vorta are already a genetically engineered species. There's no reason to think that individual Vorta can't be upgraded with special features for specific missions. Maybe Eris's specialty was contact and diplomacy with telepathic/telekinetic races. Maybe the telekinetic ability was given to her specifically for use in the Federation.

And I don't think every Vorta has met or seen a Founder; perhaps Eris didn't recognize Odo for what he is. Of course, being sent undercover would mean she'd have to keep things to herself, so maybe she was just a very good actress.

JirinPanthosa December 29 2012 01:04 AM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
Remember one of the Weyouns was willing to kill Odo. Vorta are clearly more capable of independent thought than the gem'hadar, that's why they were given the leadership and diplomatic positions.

I think the most likely explanations are either she had a specific genetic enhancement, or she had a device on her.

Or the real explanation is probably that the writers just didn't like it, but that's the plot explanation.

R. Star December 29 2012 02:34 AM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
Quote:

JirinPanthosa wrote: (Post 7457704)
Remember one of the Weyouns was willing to kill Odo. Vorta are clearly more capable of independent thought than the gem'hadar, that's why they were given the leadership and diplomatic positions.

I think the most likely explanations are either she had a specific genetic enhancement, or she had a device on her.

Or the real explanation is probably that the writers just didn't like it, but that's the plot explanation.

Well Weyoun(8 was it?) was very reluctant to do it. It took a combination of Damar pushing it along with saving his own butt(knowing how replaceable -he- is) to get him to give that order. Even then, he backed away from it at the first chance.

Though yes, Eris maintaining her cover and the Founders secret identity would seem to be more important than bowing to a god who doesn't even know he's one.

Timo December 29 2012 12:49 PM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
Of course, since Eris is the first Vorta in Star Trek, she is exceptional, indeed anomalous, in many ways. And the Vorta that come after her are a rather homogeneous bunch in comparison.

Which would be a valid argument for deciding that Eris was not a Vorta after all. There's that telekinesis thing. There's the ability to not grovel in front of Odo. There's the ability to walk through forcefields. And there's the ability to disappear in thin air, or alternately, the willingness to commit suicide for the cause. None of that is Vorta stuff. But assume that Eris is a Founder, and it all makes sense. Including the bit where she pretends to beam out into nothingness - something a Founder could fake with relative ease.

Timo Saloniemi

Tosk December 29 2012 01:10 PM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
When did Eris walk through a forcefield?

R. Star December 29 2012 01:53 PM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
Quote:

Tosk wrote: (Post 7459558)
When did Eris walk through a forcefield?

She used her mind powers to take one out. A Jem'Hadar walked through a force field in that same episode, maybe that's what they were thinking.

TheRoyalFamily December 30 2012 12:51 AM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 7459504)
...the willingness to commit suicide for the cause. None of that is Vorta stuff.

That is Vorta stuff. They even have the ability to commit suicide at a whim, just for that purpose.

Tosk December 30 2012 02:08 AM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
Quote:

Star Grinch wrote: (Post 7459627)
Quote:

Tosk wrote: (Post 7459558)
When did Eris walk through a forcefield?

She used her mind powers to take one out.

Eh, yeah I guess that sort of counts. Although I think you're right that some are thinking of Third Talak'Talan doing the real walkthrough.

Eris' so-called telekinesis could easily be nothing more than a light show. I'm not sure I accept that she had any real power at all. We know that she and the J'H were just putting on a show for Sisko and company, so...

Timo December 30 2012 01:44 PM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
Quote:

That is Vorta stuff. They even have the ability to commit suicide at a whim, just for that purpose.
But the thing is, they won't use that ability except at gunpoint, which both defeats the purpose and tells us a lot about the Vorta.

After "Jem'Hadar", we never saw a Vorta who'd willingly sacrifice his or her own life or comfort for the Dominion cause, whereas we saw quite a few who would betray the Dominion for same. So it would appear rather likely that Eris

a) faked her suicide and in fact beamed to a cloaked support vessel
b) faked her suicide by pulling a Changeling trick of some sort
c) beamed to safety in standard cowardly Vorta manner, perhaps using the famed long range transporter of "Covenant", and our heroes drew hasty and totally silly conclusions about a brave agent beaming to nothingness when her cover was blown.

Quote:

Eris' so-called telekinesis could easily be nothing more than a light show.
The "forcefield" holding our captives was probably a light show, as its lethal nature was pure hearsay, and the Dominion had no real interest in getting either Sisko or Quark killed.

However, Eris did manage to stun Quark with her chest fire for real. A con artist such as "Ardra" could easily arrange that in a dark forest clearing, by combining a cheap light show with a separate, clandestinely fired stunner, though.

We may well be seeing more weapons-related trickery in the episode, as it would make sense for the Jem'Hadar guards to carry weapons loaded with blanks. The first one tries to stop Sisko from escaping without firing his gun, which is telling enough. Quite probably, his orders are to be defeated and to donate his gun to the enemy; if he were kept in the dark about this real tactical purpose of his, he would probably try to fire his rifle. Having Sisko running around with a harmless rifle would be a good precaution, and would preempt him from attempting to craft a silly spear or a bow or something else that might actually harm the Dominion forces.

Timo Saloniemi

Tosk December 30 2012 02:48 PM

Re: Vorta telepathic abilities
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 7463827)
However, Eris did manage to stun Quark with her chest fire for real.

I'd forgotten about that, you're right. (Although I think it was Sisko that got knocked on his ass, not Quark.)

Still, likely just rigged up with tech for that mission than any kind of "they just never use it" ability of the Vorta. The Founders don't seem like the type to just hand out extraneous gifts to their servants. :)


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