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Melakon December 7 2012 06:50 AM

Starfleet non-coms
 
We know that most, if not all, officers attended Starfleet Academy. But what of the lower ranks? Memory Alpha states the Academy does have an enlisted program, so that's one route. Are there others?

There doesn't seem to be a mandatory conscription or draft system in effect.

Could commercial or private schools be offering some sort of vocational degree meeting those requirements? Do you just walk in off the street at the corner Starfleet Recruiting Office?

I have no military experience at all, so I'm trying to figure how they convince civilians to enlist. Let's assume they don't always send out a ship captain to rescue you from a bar fight.

Nerys Myk December 7 2012 07:09 AM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
Quote:

Do you just walk in off the street at the corner Starfleet Recruiting Office?
Probably that. They also might recruit at high schools like the services in the modern day US do. ( or did when I was a kid)

Melakon December 7 2012 07:19 AM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
I suppose some sort of Civilian Defense Organization also exists, which could have some sort of transfer program. And a similar arrangement with whatever authority governs industrial/commercial shipping fleets.

Timo December 7 2012 08:22 AM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
Quote:

Memory Alpha states the Academy does have an enlisted program, so that's one route.
...This basically solely because Chief O'Brien was once referred to as having taken a course at the Academy, in "Trials and Tribble-ations", despite being established as a non-com in incidental dialogue and explicit plotlines (and some costuming ambiguities notwithstanding).

But the reference was not made by the man himself - it was made in jest by the flippant Julian Bashir. It reads like this:

Quote:

"Come on, Chief, surely you took elementary temporal mechanics at the Academy?"
The actual implication is that the Chief did not take elementary temporal mechanics at the Academy. Whether he even went to the Academy (for this single course, or for anything else) is highly doubtful as well.

On the other hand, this is how O'Brien describes his joining Starfleet in "Shadowplay":

Quote:

"...two days before I was due to leave [for the Aldebaran Music Academy], I went into town and signed up for Starfleet."
Timo Saloniemi

Spike730 December 7 2012 08:37 AM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
The Starfleet Technical Services Academy on Mars seems to be a training facility for enlisted personnel.

Melakon December 7 2012 08:47 AM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
So open walk-ins could account for a lot of lower ranks. And most of the people in Starfleet seem to love it, regardless of their position. No one seems to be hoping for the day next week when his committment expires. Except guest characters in a war zone who get killed in the last act.

And Federation public schools probably have Starfleet recruiting commercials running all day in the halls. "Sure, Federation life is good! But with Starfleet, life can be better!"

The Wormhole December 7 2012 02:26 PM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 7360153)
Could commercial or private schools be offering some sort of vocational degree meeting those requirements? Do you just walk in off the street at the corner Starfleet Recruiting Office?

I have no military experience at all, so I'm trying to figure how they convince civilians to enlist. Let's assume they don't always send out a ship captain to rescue you from a bar fight.

The only non-coms we really have any background on are Chief O'Brien and Simon Tarses. Chief O'Brien, as mentioned above joined Starfleet to avoid going to a music academy. Simon Tarses wanted to go into space, but didn't want to spend four years in a classroom first, so he went the enlisted route.

Really, I think you'll find similar reasons for everyone who serves in Starfleet in the enlisted ranks. For whatever reasons they aren't interested in an extra four years of education (college/university isn't for everyone) and starship command isn't one of their career goals anyway. Obviously, not very many people have this mindset given how few non-coms we've seen compared to how many officers there are.

Gotham Central December 7 2012 08:28 PM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 7361188)
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 7360153)
Could commercial or private schools be offering some sort of vocational degree meeting those requirements? Do you just walk in off the street at the corner Starfleet Recruiting Office?

I have no military experience at all, so I'm trying to figure how they convince civilians to enlist. Let's assume they don't always send out a ship captain to rescue you from a bar fight.

The only non-coms we really have any background on are Chief O'Brien and Simon Tarses. Chief O'Brien, as mentioned above joined Starfleet to avoid going to a music academy. Simon Tarses wanted to go into space, but didn't want to spend four years in a classroom first, so he went the enlisted route.

Really, I think you'll find similar reasons for everyone who serves in Starfleet in the enlisted ranks. For whatever reasons they aren't interested in an extra four years of education (college/university isn't for everyone) and starship command isn't one of their career goals anyway. Obviously, not very many people have this mindset given how few non-coms we've seen compared to how many officers there are.


Well we've seen lots of people referred to as "crewman" over the years. Yeomen also appear to have been enlisted personnel as well (they wore no rank designation).

What we saw of the entry process in SFA on TNG certainly reinforces the idea that it was REALLY difficult to get in (though I seriously don't see either Tom Paris nor Be'lanna and Nog passing an entrance process THAT difficult). What I could see though is something like a Starfleet version of ROTC at universities across the Federation. It would also make sense for there to be recruitment centers as well. for NCOs

One I could also see Starfleet doing outreach to technical/specialist schools in each of the sciences. Starfleet has WAY too many technical/scientific specialists for them all to have attended SFA. Its possible that once Starfleet started allowing civilians to serve on starships that the number of NCOs dropped. That would explain why you saw fewer NCOs on TNG. When the Borg incursions and Dominion War forced Starfleet to put an end to that policy, you likely saw more NCOs. If I recall correctly most of O'Brien's engineering team on the Defiant were NCOs.

Drago-Kazov December 7 2012 08:59 PM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 7360480)
So open walk-ins could account for a lot of lower ranks. And most of the people in Starfleet seem to love it, regardless of their position. No one seems to be hoping for the day next week when his committment expires. Except guest characters in a war zone who get killed in the last act.

And Federation public schools probably have Starfleet recruiting commercials running all day in the halls. "Sure, Federation life is good! But with Starfleet, life can be better!"

In which episode did we see Rom and his colleagues who worked in the sewage department or something? They did not look like motivated workers.

sonak December 7 2012 09:04 PM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
why is this a complicated issue? People probably enlist in Starfleet for the same reason they do in the Navy-career opportunities, travel opportunities, a desire to serve, a chance at adventure, etc.

I'd imagine they have recruiting facilities just like they do now.

Nerys Myk December 8 2012 01:03 AM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
Quote:

Drago-Kazov wrote: (Post 7362943)
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 7360480)
So open walk-ins could account for a lot of lower ranks. And most of the people in Starfleet seem to love it, regardless of their position. No one seems to be hoping for the day next week when his committment expires. Except guest characters in a war zone who get killed in the last act.

And Federation public schools probably have Starfleet recruiting commercials running all day in the halls. "Sure, Federation life is good! But with Starfleet, life can be better!"

In which episode did we see Rom and his colleagues who worked in the sewage department or something? They did not look like motivated workers.

Rom isn't in Starfleet or a Federation citizen. He doesn't even live in Federation space.

The Wormhole December 8 2012 02:23 AM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
Quote:

Gotham Central wrote: (Post 7362748)
What I could see though is something like a Starfleet version of ROTC at universities across the Federation.

You'd think so, but the general implication is that all officers are graduates of Starfleet Academy in San Fransisco. Seriously, there was a thread a while back where we went through the characters we know the training background of, and an overwhemingly high percentage are confirmed as graduates of the Academy.

Quote:

Santa Kang wrote: (Post 7364404)
Quote:

Drago-Kazov wrote: (Post 7362943)
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 7360480)
So open walk-ins could account for a lot of lower ranks. And most of the people in Starfleet seem to love it, regardless of their position. No one seems to be hoping for the day next week when his committment expires. Except guest characters in a war zone who get killed in the last act.

And Federation public schools probably have Starfleet recruiting commercials running all day in the halls. "Sure, Federation life is good! But with Starfleet, life can be better!"

In which episode did we see Rom and his colleagues who worked in the sewage department or something? They did not look like motivated workers.

Rom isn't in Starfleet or a Federation citizen. He doesn't even live in Federation space.

I think what Drago-Kazov is referring to is the DS9 episode The Assignment in which Rom is transferred to the station's engineering swing shift. The Starfleet officers among this shift don't share his enthusiam for the job.

Melakon December 8 2012 02:59 AM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
Admittedly there would be a few griping about the real nasty daily jobs. Not everyone would be proud of becoming Permanent Latrine Orderly like Will Stockdale in No Time For Sergeants.

C.E. Evans December 8 2012 03:32 PM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
Quote:

sonak wrote: (Post 7362970)
why is this a complicated issue? People probably enlist in Starfleet for the same reason they do in the Navy-career opportunities, travel opportunities, a desire to serve, a chance at adventure, etc.

I'd imagine they have recruiting facilities just like they do now.

Same here.

I always imagined there were a number of basic training centers--or boot camps--located throughout the Federation with perhaps some advanced training at the Academy or other facilities.

T'Girl December 8 2012 04:31 PM

Re: Starfleet non-coms
 
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 7364716)
but the general implication is that all officers are graduates of Starfleet Academy in San Fransisco.

That isn't the impression I got from TOS, only a few mentioned attending the academy. Kirk, Mitchell, and Merik (sp?). The other officers might have gotten their commissions through something like OTS, ROTC, etc.. There are a few pieces of dialog suggesting that Spock didn't attend the academy, same with McCoy.

And one episode suggests that Uhura might have been a mustang, she was enlisted prior to being an officer.


:)


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