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Danlav05 December 1 2012 07:03 PM

Starfleet Marine Corps
 
Are these 'canon'?

There are a few articles out there on the web such as Memory Gamma, however apart from the MACOs they've never featured.

Hve they been in books/comics? Its suggested Colonel West form The Undiscovered Country was a member.


They are a much talked about 'myth', but has even fan films used them? It's an interestingly famous but largly unknown feature of the Trek universe.

Mr. Laser Beam December 1 2012 07:09 PM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
Starfleet does have some form of ground troops. We've seen them several times, most notably on DS9.

What they are actually CALLED, on the other hand, is not clear. Could be anything. It hasn't been nailed down yet.

The Wormhole December 2 2012 01:23 AM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
Canonically, no there are no "Starfleet Marines." The idea has been toyed with, a Marine detachment was originally considered for TOS, but that never materialized. The earliest details for Enterprise had Malcolm Reed listed as a "Starfleet Marine." However, by the time the show went into production he was a regular Starfleet officer.

Behind the scenes info for Trek V says the guys in blue shirts that were on the mission to Nimbus III were Marines, but they were never identified as such on screen.

The only definitive indication we have of ground forces onscreen are the MACOs, and even then we're not completely sure what happened to them after the Federation was formed. They likely were absorbed into Starfleet, given that their uniforms had the command star seen on the TOS uniforms, but beyond that we know nothing.

The black outfit guys on DS9 are an odditiy. While they do seem to be some sort of ground force, they use navy style ranks like the rest of Starfleet.

Colonel West, despite his army rank wears a Starfleet uniform with an Admiral's insignia. He should have a Captain's insignia, since a Colonel is the Army/Marine equivelant of a Navy Captain. Although the novels say he is an Admiral who is referred to as Colonel as a nickname.

LobsterAfternoon December 2 2012 02:05 AM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
Do we know that the dudes from DS9 aren't just regular Starfleet guys assigned to ground warfare?

Mr. Laser Beam December 2 2012 02:08 AM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
^ I don't think Starfleet would do that. You can't have every officer trained in every line of work. It just doesn't work that way. There must always be specialization. You can't pick starship crew and assign them to ground combat willy-nilly - it'd be like sending a Walmart security guard to fight in Afghanistan.

The guys in the black uniforms could be Starfleet's equivalent of Navy SEALs - naval personnel, but trained in missions like this. I do like the concept of a Starfleet Marine Corps though. I'd prefer to have dedicated ground combat divisions.

C.E. Evans December 2 2012 05:33 AM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
I think Starfleet's security division does have personnel that are Starfleet Marines in everything but name.

Mr. Laser Beam December 2 2012 06:15 AM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
^ Security officers (i.e. redshirts) are starship crew. They're not meant for ground combat.

King Daniel Into Darkness December 2 2012 11:22 AM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
As far as I know, Starfleet Marines exist only in FASA's RPG sourcebooks and maybe some fanfiction.

IIRC, Star Trek Online has the Enterprise's MACOs still active and a separate entity in the early 25th century.

There are no mention of marines in the Trek novelverse.

C.E. Evans December 2 2012 02:14 PM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7333504)
^ Security officers (i.e. redshirts) are starship crew. They're not meant for ground combat.

But they've seen doing such during away missions.

I think the only real difference between starship security personnel and ground troops is that the latter is generally deployed in much larger numbers on a planetary surface and may have specialized equipment. Otherwise, they're probably interchangeable.

Bry_Sinclair December 2 2012 04:49 PM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
In TFF there was a ground force used on Nimbus III who had dark blue trim to the uniforms, rather than the dark green of Security at the time.

Personally I avoid using Marines in my fan fic, as security personnel will be trained well enough to handle just about anything the galaxy has to throw at them. But that's just me.

Mr. Laser Beam December 2 2012 04:55 PM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 7333984)
There are no mention of marines in the Trek novelverse.

There is at least one that does, The Forgotten War.

Me, I'm sticking with the suggestion that there are Starfleet Marines. I know it's not canon, but the hell with that. It just makes the most sense. Furthermore, I suggest that the TOS incarnation of them, wears the same kind of uniform as the rest of Starfleet, but in black. Don't tell me that wouldn't look cool. :cool:

JoeZhang December 2 2012 05:23 PM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
Why are we calling them Marines not Soldiers? As all of the combat situations we see are more representative of Soldiers in the generic sense rather than marines in the specific sense (if that makes sense)?

Mr. Laser Beam December 2 2012 06:11 PM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
^ Well, Starfleet *is* a navy. And thus any ground combat division that is derived from it, is more likely to be Marines.

T'Girl December 2 2012 06:58 PM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
Quote:

JoeZhang wrote: (Post 7334482)
Why are we calling them Marines not Soldiers?

For safety. If you ever want to start a fist fight with a marine, look him in the eye and call him a "soldier."

Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7334398)
I suggest that the TOS incarnation of them, wears the same kind of uniform as the rest of Starfleet, but in black. Don't tell me that wouldn't look cool.

Or Green.

I wrote a fanfic once that when a younger Kirk was assigned to the long term survey of Neural (Tyree's planet), he was transferred TDY to the infantry, because they do the long term surveys, while the fleet does "scan and dash" investigations. This is why we sometimes would see Kirk wearing that green wrap around shirt, he's "entitled" to wear the color.

Quote:

Bry_Sinclair wrote: (Post 7334386)
security personnel will be trained well enough to handle just about anything the galaxy has to throw at them

I think that the security personnel we see are basically military police. And while like modern day MP's they can be employed in combat, it isn't their specialty. A security guard might be able to (in an emergency) take the helm, but not their primary training.

:)

Mr. Laser Beam December 2 2012 07:43 PM

Re: Starfleet Marine Corps
 
^ Green? I think I'd prefer black as the Marine division color. Green looks too much like the greenish-gold of command.

And I don't see Marines wearing tunics as ridiculous looking as Kirk's wraparound. :lol:


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