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-   -   Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was ... (spoiler)? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=195541)

Lyon_Wonder November 29 2012 05:16 AM

Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was ... (spoiler)?
 
At the end of “Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down” in s1 Head 6 comments to Baltar that everyone who undergoes his Cylon detector test passes as human regardless if the person is a human or Cylon. When Head 6 asks Baltar how the Cylon detector results on Ellen Tigh really turned out, Gaius says to Head 6 that “I will never tell”. This comment suggests that maybe Baltar secretly took the time to check Ellen’s true origin through his test samples, even though Baltar rigged his cylon detector to show the official results as human. And later in S3 after knowing the identities of the 6 active human-cylon models that have multiple copies and finding out about the missing final-five, Baltar might have come to the conclusion that Ellen Tigh was one of the final five Cylons. Of course everyone, except for Cavil and Boomer, assumed Ellen died on New Caprica, and there was still wiggle room for Baltar to speculate that he was also one of the final five Cylons.

starburst November 29 2012 12:08 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
Its a plot hole, a big one, seeming not much later Baltar was freaking out trying to find out who else was a Cylon from Boomer by threatening to kill Tyrol when both Col Tigh and Tyrol should have been in one of the first batches to be tested.

its possible the Final 5 are just different enough so the Cylon Detector wouldnt work it out.

Saul November 29 2012 02:30 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
I remember having this discussion way back during season 1 and our conclusions were that all the results were green and that not even Baltar himself knew the results.

Robert Maxwell November 29 2012 02:32 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
Even if he was getting valid results for everyone, there's no guarantee the Final Five would show up on his detector, being an entirely different generation of skinjobs.

Wereghost November 29 2012 08:22 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
There's no real reason to suppose that the final five were physically special; it was their technology and seemingly their genetic pool that created the significant seven models. Also, Baltar's cylon detector (mark two) works by simply identifying synthetic samples from natural ones, or so he tells Adama. Barring a substantial plot hole, a false negative result or a completely out-of-character decision to sabotage the test and let potentially crucial information pass by him, Baltar knew perfectly well that Ellen was a cylon.

It's probably just a plot hole, though.

Robert Maxwell November 29 2012 08:41 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
Quote:

Wereghost wrote: (Post 7321756)
There's no real reason to suppose that the final five were physically special; it was their technology and seemingly their genetic pool that created the significant seven models. Also, Baltar's cylon detector (mark two) works by simply identifying synthetic samples from natural ones, or so he tells Adama. Barring a substantial plot hole, a false negative result or a completely out-of-character decision to sabotage the test and let potentially crucial information pass by him, Baltar knew perfectly well that Ellen was a cylon.

It's probably just a plot hole, though.

Conveniently, the one moment when this information would've been most useful--Three's hostage situation in "Revelations"--had Baltar as one of the hostages, so he couldn't tell Adama who the Cylons in his fleet were.

At a minimum, Baltar should've known that Ellen and Saul were Cylons, maybe Tyrol, but not Tory or Anders. It depends on who all was tested, and presumably Adama's entire command staff were.

Wereghost November 29 2012 08:46 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
^ I agree. Tory and Sam would have been way down the pecking order even if the tests had continued. Tyrol's certainly a possibility, given that Baltar would've acted pretty much the same towards him either way. :)

Robert Maxwell November 29 2012 08:47 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
Quote:

Wereghost wrote: (Post 7321873)
^ I agree. Tory and Sam would have been way down the pecking order even if the tests had continued. Tyrol's certainly a possibility, given that Baltar would've acted pretty much the same towards him either way. :)

They quit testing after Boomer shot Adama. Tory was a nobody at that point (maybe a low-level functionary in Roslin's administration, or just a civilian) and Anders wasn't in the fleet yet. So, I figured they were never tested at all.

Queen Mab December 2 2012 12:49 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
Should/Could we not change the title so as to no grossly spoil the who for anyone just about to embark on watching it.

I'm sure they might come in the sub-forum to ask a question or something with no intention of looking for spoilers to find 'Ellen Tigh was a cylon' right in a thread title.

I know there might be a rule saying enough time has passed.. but perhaps just out of courtesy?

RoJoHen December 3 2012 07:48 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
I just always assumed that Baltar didn't want to burden himself with actually knowing who the Cylons were, so after Boomer's test, he rigged it so that everyone would pass.

Mister Fandango December 4 2012 08:00 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
Quote:

Queen Mab wrote: (Post 7334056)
I know there might be a rule saying enough time has passed.. but perhaps just out of courtesy?

If they are coming here, they have to expect to run into spoilers either directly or indirectly. The series has been over for years now, and people don't have to wait weeks or even months to continue watching the show.

People shouldn't have to keep stifling themselves just in the very unlikely and off-chance that someone might see something that's considered a spoiler, especially when that will only occur when they're knowingly and willingly going into a spoiler-laden environment.

Sindatur December 4 2012 08:18 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
Quote:

Mister Fandango wrote: (Post 7345177)
Quote:

Queen Mab wrote: (Post 7334056)
I know there might be a rule saying enough time has passed.. but perhaps just out of courtesy?

If they are coming here, they have to expect to run into spoilers either directly or indirectly. The series has been over for years now, and people don't have to wait weeks or even months to continue watching the show.

People shouldn't have to keep stifling themselves just in the very unlikely and off-chance that someone might see something that's considered a spoiler, especially when that will only occur when they're knowingly and willingly going into a spoiler-laden environment.

How is someone supposed to do a "First Time Watch" thread, without going into the Forum for BSG? First Time Watch Threads are as beneficial for those of us who've seen the show as they are for somone sharing their experience.

1. The Forum is pretty dead aside from The B&C Thread(s)
2. Folks who've seen the show enjoy seeing new perspectives

Is it really too much to ask that huge Spoilers like this not be blasted out in the thread titles, and contain a Spoiler warning in the title? Why the attitude as if your Free Speech Rigts have been violated when someone asks for a little courtesy?

Neroon December 5 2012 12:11 AM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was ... (spoiler)?
 
Okay, this change was a simple enough one, but keep in mind the show has indeed been off for quite awhile. It's a bit unrealistic to expect things to be spoiler free when you go into a BSG based forum, after all. link to spoiler guidelines.

Be that as it may, it's also not difficult to keep such major plot points out of thread titles, just in case. It's all part of maintaining a fruitful ground for good discussion.

Mister Fandango December 6 2012 06:38 AM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
Quote:

Sindatur wrote: (Post 7345348)
Quote:

Mister Fandango wrote: (Post 7345177)
Quote:

Queen Mab wrote: (Post 7334056)
I know there might be a rule saying enough time has passed.. but perhaps just out of courtesy?

If they are coming here, they have to expect to run into spoilers either directly or indirectly. The series has been over for years now, and people don't have to wait weeks or even months to continue watching the show.

People shouldn't have to keep stifling themselves just in the very unlikely and off-chance that someone might see something that's considered a spoiler, especially when that will only occur when they're knowingly and willingly going into a spoiler-laden environment.

How is someone supposed to do a "First Time Watch" thread, without going into the Forum for BSG? First Time Watch Threads are as beneficial for those of us who've seen the show as they are for somone sharing their experience.

1. The Forum is pretty dead aside from The B&C Thread(s)
2. Folks who've seen the show enjoy seeing new perspectives

Is it really too much to ask that huge Spoilers like this not be blasted out in the thread titles, and contain a Spoiler warning in the title? Why the attitude as if your Free Speech Rigts have been violated when someone asks for a little courtesy?

When does it stop?

Are you not allowed to make a thread entitled "Was Darth Vader really Luke's son?" After all someone, somewhere has never seen Empire Strikes Back. How about when people are discussing a war movie and starts a thread "What if Hitler had won WWII?" That's a spoiler for anyone who didn't pay attention in history class. Is that worth screaming and whining about a lack of courtesy, too? In fact, any thing you can think of, I guarantee there's someone, somewhere who's painfully ignorant about it. So by virtue of that, maybe we shouldn't have titles at all.

Whaa, 'All Along the Watchtower?!?' OMG, stop spoiling the song BSG used, I haven't seen it yet!!! And what what WHAT?! There was a Law & Order reference in a Futurama episode?! But I haven't see it yet, why you gotta spoil it for me?!?!?! :rolleyes:

That said, I'd simply like to know when that expiration date is so as to avoid having to see you people crying about it even when it has absolutely zero bearing on you whatsoever. (Nevermind that there is already a well-defined, clearly labeled, repeatedly stated rule in place for determining it already on this forum.)

Robert Maxwell December 6 2012 02:51 PM

Re: Did Baltar know Ellen Tigh was a cylon?
 
Quote:

Mister Fandango wrote: (Post 7353163)
Quote:

Sindatur wrote: (Post 7345348)
Quote:

Mister Fandango wrote: (Post 7345177)
If they are coming here, they have to expect to run into spoilers either directly or indirectly. The series has been over for years now, and people don't have to wait weeks or even months to continue watching the show.

People shouldn't have to keep stifling themselves just in the very unlikely and off-chance that someone might see something that's considered a spoiler, especially when that will only occur when they're knowingly and willingly going into a spoiler-laden environment.

How is someone supposed to do a "First Time Watch" thread, without going into the Forum for BSG? First Time Watch Threads are as beneficial for those of us who've seen the show as they are for somone sharing their experience.

1. The Forum is pretty dead aside from The B&C Thread(s)
2. Folks who've seen the show enjoy seeing new perspectives

Is it really too much to ask that huge Spoilers like this not be blasted out in the thread titles, and contain a Spoiler warning in the title? Why the attitude as if your Free Speech Rigts have been violated when someone asks for a little courtesy?

When does it stop?

Are you not allowed to make a thread entitled "Was Darth Vader really Luke's son?" After all someone, somewhere has never seen Empire Strikes Back. How about when people are discussing a war movie and starts a thread "What if Hitler had won WWII?" That's a spoiler for anyone who didn't pay attention in history class. Is that worth screaming and whining about a lack of courtesy, too? In fact, any thing you can think of, I guarantee there's someone, somewhere who's painfully ignorant about it. So by virtue of that, maybe we shouldn't have titles at all.

Whaa, 'All Along the Watchtower?!?' OMG, stop spoiling the song BSG used, I haven't seen it yet!!! And what what WHAT?! There was a Law & Order reference in a Futurama episode?! But I haven't see it yet, why you gotta spoil it for me?!?!?! :rolleyes:

That said, I'd simply like to know when that expiration date is so as to avoid having to see you people crying about it even when it has absolutely zero bearing on you whatsoever. (Nevermind that there is already a well-defined, clearly labeled, repeatedly stated rule in place for determining it already on this forum.)

Look, it's not that hard to be considerate and just keep major plot spoilers (such as the identities of the Final Five Cylons) out of thread titles. "All Along the Watchtower" is not a spoiler, because without context someone who hasn't seen the show would have no idea how the song is significant to it.

When in doubt, just avoid spoiling things in the title. It's not difficult, it's just courtesy.

The Darth Vader thing is a poor comparison because his identity as Luke's father has been part of popular culture for a few decades now. BSG spoilers, not so much.


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