The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Star Trek - Original Series (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=38)
-   -   Spectre of the Gun (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=194215)

emergencyfruit November 16 2012 06:20 AM

Spectre of the Gun
 
Hi everyone, I have a (hopefully) quick question about "Spectre of the Gun". The whole point in the climax was that this world operates according to Kirk, Bones, Spock, Scotty, and Chekov's inherent beliefs and expectations. Because Chekov believed the bullets were real, he was "killed". But they figure this out because the tranquilizer device fails to work, and that's what I don't understand.

By the very rules of this world, shouldn't the tranquilizer still have worked, since both McCoy and Scotty were absolutely certain that it would? Scotty should have believed that he was being sedated and dropped to the ground accordingly. Heck, such a phenomenon exists in our reality - the placebo effect.

can anyone help clear this up for me? Thanks!

Timo November 16 2012 08:24 AM

Re: Spectre of the Gun
 
I guess we could claim that there was no ambiguity about the situation with Chekov yet, but the creation of the tranquilizer involved some people who were already skeptical of the outcome (chiefly Spock, but perhaps also McCoy), and the Melkot puppet masters could not decide whether to run their fake world according to the wishes of the believers or the wishes of the skeptics.

The other rationalization within the given rules is that the Melkotian criteria for the simulation were "just as in the brief mental image of Kirk", and this allowed for no updating or introduction of modern elements. That is, everything would take place just as in Kirk's (inaccurate and romanticized) account of the OK Corral events, and anesthetics that did not yet exist in the 19th century would not be allowed to exist in the simulation, either.

Timo Saloniemi

T'Girl November 16 2012 01:17 PM

Re: Spectre of the Gun
 
Except Scotty personally viewed what they were doing with the gas as a "test."

Scotty is a engineer, the ones I've encountered can be very literal. Scotty didn't know one way or the other if the gas was going to work, that's why they were testing it in the first place.

Scotty didn't know it was going to work ... so it didn't.

:)

emergencyfruit November 16 2012 02:40 PM

Re: Spectre of the Gun
 
True, it was a test, but the only reason they were doing it was because Kirk ordered them to test it. McCoy and Spock were ready to take the device to battle right then and there, and surely Scotty wouldn't be so cheerful and upbeat if he had doubts about their only chance for survival...

Smellincoffee November 18 2012 05:08 AM

Re: Spectre of the Gun
 
I assume the Malkots made the gas not work for the same reason they didn't let Kirk & co walk out: they wanted the scenario to play out and end in bloodshed. Although they could interfere with the environment, the beliefs of Kirk and the others were evidently beyond them.

Mr_Homn November 18 2012 07:20 AM

Re: Spectre of the Gun
 
since it's all from kirk's mind in the first place, perhaps it is only kirk's perception that matters.

he believed chekov could die, so he appeared to

he doubted that the gas would work, so it didn't...

of course this would make the mindmeld with scottie and mccoy unecessary but perhaps they just never realized it was only kirk's perception that mattered.

emergencyfruit November 18 2012 07:24 AM

Re: Spectre of the Gun
 
Quote:

Mr_Homn wrote: (Post 7272241)
since it's all from kirk's mind in the first place, perhaps it is only kirk's perception that matters.

Ooh, good point. I forgot about that in the intro. That's actually a pretty plausible explanation. Thanks! Damn it, Jim, you and your rational skepticism... :P

jayrath November 19 2012 12:54 AM

Re: Spectre of the Gun
 
I just saw it again on MeTV last, and toward the end, on the bridge, Kirk says something to the effect that he (and presumably the rest of the party) had never left the ship. So it all occurred in their minds, perhaps in a moment, and we needn't worry too much about how the Melkotians set it up or erred in their mind control.

xortex November 19 2012 07:42 PM

Re: Spectre of the Gun
 
Yea nothing was real there including the crew.

ToddPence November 19 2012 10:48 PM

Re: Spectre of the Gun
 
Scotty agrees to be a test subject for McCoy's gas grenade on one condition: that he's "wide awake" for the gunfight at five o'clock. McCoy says he guarantees it. At the time this exchange occurs, it is about ten minutes before five. If McCoy really believes the gas is going to be effective, how can he possibly make such a guarantee?

emergencyfruit November 19 2012 11:01 PM

Re: Spectre of the Gun
 
Quote:

ToddPence wrote: (Post 7278616)
Scotty agrees to be a test subject for McCoy's gas grenade on one condition: that he's "wide awake" for the gunfight at five o'clock. McCoy says he guarantees it. At the time this exchange occurs, it is about ten minutes before five. If McCoy really believes the gas is going to be effective, how can he possibly make such a guarantee?

Because as soon as Scotty passes out, they would remove the canister and give him fresh air, reviving him. In battle, they would open the grenade and leave it there, so their opponents would continue getting slowly poisoned until either death or until Kirk and crew have time to figure out another plan.

And besides, dear Scotty had been drinking shots of whiskey all day, and he seemed awfully chipper about the prospect of near-certain death at 5 o'clock if he didn't believe it would work.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.