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los2188 November 6 2012 06:21 AM

What was the reasoning for the Unification?
 
Forgive me for my ignorance in not knowing the answer to this question, but what was the point of the Unification episodes? What exactly was Spock trying to do? Was he trying to unify the Romulans and Vulcans to become one race, so to speak, or was he trying to "convert" Romulans to the teachings of Surak, was he just trying to have the Vulcans and Romulans on friendly terms? I ask because I never totally understood what his intent was. Again, forgive my ignorance please.

Mott the barber November 6 2012 04:14 PM

Re: What was the reasoning for the Unification?
 
Quote:

los2188 wrote: (Post 7210765)
Forgive me for my ignorance in not knowing the answer to this question, but what was the point of the Unification episodes? What exactly was Spock trying to do? Was he trying to unify the Romulans and Vulcans to become one race, so to speak, or was he trying to "convert" Romulans to the teachings of Surak, was he just trying to have the Vulcans and Romulans on friendly terms? I ask because I never totally understood what his intent was. Again, forgive my ignorance please.

Actually it's a really good question, and although it's been a few years since I've seen them, I don't recall the plan actually being explained in great detail.

SchwEnt November 6 2012 05:12 PM

Re: What was the reasoning for the Unification?
 
To my mind, it wasn't so much about galactic socio-political aims. It wasn't about Romulan empire-building or conquest. It wasn't about cultural ramifications of Vulcan influence on Romulan society.

It was about Spock. It was about showing Spock one last time, giving him a send-off legacy of galactic proportions, something to rival Surak himself in the annals of Vulcan history.

Kirk was given his heroic send-off role in TUC, the man who brought peace between the Federation and the Klingons, a noble legacy.

What heroic achievement would Spock have, something to rival Surak's importance? Being the Vulcan that unites the two divided peoples (Vulcans and Romulans), the man who brought peace between the Federation and the Romulans.

That's pretty much it. Some momentous event of galactic importance where Spock plays a pivotal role, to secure his heroic place in history one last time.

Nacluv November 6 2012 09:53 PM

Re: What was the reasoning for the Unification?
 
Quote:

SchwEnt wrote: (Post 7212625)
To my mind, it wasn't so much about galactic socio-political aims. It wasn't about Romulan empire-building or conquest. It wasn't about cultural ramifications of Vulcan influence on Romulan society.

It was about Spock. It was about showing Spock one last time, giving him a send-off legacy of galactic proportions, something to rival Surak himself in the annals of Vulcan history.

Kirk was given his heroic send-off role in TUC, the man who brought peace between the Federation and the Klingons, a noble legacy.

What heroic achievement would Spock have, something to rival Surak's importance? Being the Vulcan that unites the two divided peoples (Vulcans and Romulans), the man who brought peace between the Federation and the Romulans.

That's pretty much it. Some momentous event of galactic importance where Spock plays a pivotal role, to secure his heroic place in history one last time.

I think basically that's why Nimoy agreed to do it. He felt that what he did actually was a contribution to his character as well as the fans of Spock.

He would probably not have agreed to make a McCoy-like appearance.

An interesting thought is if TNG writers ever had the slightest thought of anyone else beyond those of the TOS cast who actually appeared, no matter how small or in what form the appearances would have been. Did they ever consider Kirk, Uhura, Sulu, Chekov or Janice Rand?

Or any one-time ally or villain in TOS? Khan? One of Kirk's doctor girlfriends? Any other Vulcan?

marksound November 6 2012 10:08 PM

Re: What was the reasoning for the Unification?
 
Quote:

Any other Vulcan?
Sarek was in "Sarek".

Nacluv November 6 2012 11:42 PM

Re: What was the reasoning for the Unification?
 
Quote:

Carcazoid wrote: (Post 7214434)
Quote:

Any other Vulcan?
Sarek was in "Sarek".

God, of course I know that. Sarek was even in Unification. What I meant was if there was even the slightes thought of returning any other TOS character which wasn't implemented in the end. Anyone know any background story of this kind?

Mojochi November 6 2012 11:52 PM

Re: What was the reasoning for the Unification?
 
Ultimately, I got the impression that Spock's plan was not specifically laid out. It was just an improvised reaching out to a people, opening the line of communication, in the hope that one day Romulans & Vulcans could see one another as kin again

On a personal level though it appeared he suspected a growth of potential within the newer generations of Romulans which could have been developing toward a more Vulcan way of being. This is what led him to believe in pursuing relations

I think he believes Romulans will someday choose to live like Vulcans, & has decided to plant whatever seeds of encouragement he can. He's not trying to convert them, but simply help them along & let them know they have a race of brethren that is there for them

His goal is logical, but his plan could not be. It had to be more intuitive than logical, because he was hoping to build a bridge with an emotional people. What makes it a great story for him is that he is taking all he has learned about coexisting with emotional beings, from his life in Starfleet & using it to bridge the gap to his people's lost kin. It means his service in Starfleet had a nobler purpose than just to serve. It gave him the wisdom to know how to go about reuniting two very different peoples. Spock may be the only Vulcan ever to have the wisdom & will to do that

Quote:

One can begin to reshape the landscape with a single flower
Quote:

The reason for my coming here has never been more clear. The union of the Vulcan and the Romulan people will not be achieved by politics or by diplomacy. But it will be achieved. The answer has been here before us all along. An inexorable evolution toward a Vulcan philosophy has already begun. Like the first Vulcans, these people are struggling toward a new enlightenment. And it may take decades or even centuries for them to reach it; but they will reach it. And I must help.

Armored Saint November 8 2012 05:04 PM

Re: What was the reasoning for the Unification?
 
Of course, it was a way to close the Spock's chapter and a way to promote both TNG and Star Trek VI.

I suppose the Spock's movement has two goals, the cultural one and the political one.

It was a good way for Spock to promote Vulcan culture. Spock hoped that Romulans and Vulcans will be again the same people, but he was conscious that he will be long dead at this time. Whant he could do, it's create a fraternal links between this people. This new brotherhood would help to spread Vulcan cultures into Romulan empire.

This new brotherhood would also allow a durable peace between the Federation and the Romulan empire and reform the Romulan regime. Probably there was some officers deeplyinterested by Vulcan culture, but I think those military leaders were mainly reformers. N'Vek was definitely not interested by the Vulcain way of life. He was more like Toreth.

Timo November 8 2012 05:12 PM

Re: What was the reasoning for the Unification?
 
It would stand to reason that Vulcanoids on both sides of the border would actually think warmly of unity - if just the other side would give up their despicable way of life! It seems Spock chose the more difficult approach out of the two possibilities: convincing logical Vulcans to at least consider a Romulan way of life would be easier than convincing emotional Romulans to consider anything at all, including the Vulcan way of life.

Also, unity in which Vulcan would join the Romulan Star Empire appears more easily achievable than unity in which Romulus joins the United Federation of Planets. Perhaps Spock avoided the easier approach because he wanted to steer well clear of the very tangible threat of Vulcan joining the RSE?

Quote:

He's not trying to convert them
...But how is that consistent with this statement?

Quote:

"The answer has been here before us all along. An inexorable evolution toward a Vulcan philosophy has already begun. Like the first Vulcans, these people are struggling toward a new enlightenment."
It does seem as if Spock believes that conversion to "Vulcanism", perhaps even Surakism, is the only way to unity. If he's not going to promote that, then what is he doing?

Timo Saloniemi

JoeD80 November 8 2012 08:41 PM

Re: What was the reasoning for the Unification?
 
Quote:

Nacluv wrote: (Post 7215100)
What I meant was if there was even the slightes thought of returning any other TOS character which wasn't implemented in the end. Anyone know any background story of this kind?

The DS9 writers thought about using Harry Mudd at one point.

Mojochi November 9 2012 02:07 AM

Re: What was the reasoning for the Unification?
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 7226083)
Quote:

He's not trying to convert them
...But how is that consistent with this statement?

Quote:

"The answer has been here before us all along. An inexorable evolution toward a Vulcan philosophy has already begun. Like the first Vulcans, these people are struggling toward a new enlightenment."
It does seem as if Spock believes that conversion to "Vulcanism", perhaps even Surakism, is the only way to unity. If he's not going to promote that, then what is he doing?

Timo Saloniemi

"Evolution toward a Vulcan philosophy" is not precisely the same thing as adopting or being converted to a Vulcan way of life, which I'm not even sure is possible in & of itself, for the whole Romulan race.

I took his statement to mean that they're already doing it naturally without him, & as he believes it's in both race's best interest, he wishes to help them in that discovery. The Vulcan way of life isn't something that is just adopted. As it's been explained, it is something which is attained, & even done so in degrees, such as the Kolinahr

He can't just waltz through there & collect up a bunch of Vulcan hopefuls, like the Pied Piper. He couldn't convert them even if he was trying to. They have to find it in themselves, & his goal is to be there the rest of his days to aid them in that struggle of discovery

It may be that a time will come when they find for themselves a way to exist similarly to Vulcans or even the V'Tosh ka'tur, & suppress their intense emotionalism in whatever way works specifically for them

One would expect that Romulans need not necessarily adopt Vulcan living practices in order to find a new unity with Vulcans. They just need to evolve out of the unsuppressed intensely emotional way of life they've been existing in, or at least that's how it seemed Spock thought of it

That's how I took it anyway. That's why he used the word philosophy. They're not going to have Vulcan living practices, but their philosophies might begin to be more alike. I suppose his statements are subjective though


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