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Bry_Sinclair November 3 2012 11:38 PM

The Host and Continuity
 
Although the Trill were introduced in "The Host", much of what was established there was overwritten by DS9, from their appearance, to how the joining is more balanced and less the Symbiont dominating the Host, transporters are harmful, reassociation, as well as how the Joined nature of some Trill isn't a mystery (Sisko was friends with Curzon for decades, Bashir knew about them in "Emissary").

So where does that leave the original episode? It's something that I've been pondering on for a day or two.

In my fanfic continuity, I have retconned the original look of the Trill in favour of the spotted variety (seeing as how they were better established) and stick more closely to DS9's portrayal, whilst the transporters harming Joined Trill may be so for a small minority, but for most it isn't an issue.

Timo November 5 2012 10:52 AM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
"The Host" establishes that a Trill host can look like just about anything: we see two ridge-faced individuals, but also one beard-faced fellah from the species H.sapiens. DS9 is simply consistent with that, by introducing another new look among the many.

As for a "balanced" joining, I don't really see signs of that in DS9. The slug just plain takes over and has fun with the host body. At most, Dax sometimes bothers with using the name of the host. Perhaps Odan did that on weekends, too?

And "transporters harming" was bullshit from the get-go. Odan just didn't want a transporter operator using his parasite filter and exposing Odan's secret that way. Odan and Dax alike could beam safely by informing the transporter operator beforehand - and would die alike if failing to inform him.

There aren't different sorts of Trill. There is just one sort, the ugly slug. The rest is mere decoration and subterfuge. Sometimes the slugs take ridgeheaded or bearded hosts, but generally they prefer the Lexus of humanoids, the spotted Kriosian species (many individuals of which live on planet Trill and are considered Trill by citizenship, regardless of their species). And they blatantly lie to their hosts about how crucial the various parameters are for a proper match, so that they could keep on choosing as they please.

Timo Saloniemi

Tosk November 5 2012 11:36 AM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 7205299)
As for a "balanced" joining, I don't really see signs of that in DS9. The slug just plain takes over and has fun with the host body.

I can't think of a single example of the symbiote completely dominating the host in DS9.

All of Dax's hosts have wildly varying personalities, which would seemingly preclude Dax being the sole pilot.

Sandoval November 5 2012 06:29 PM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
It's just a bit of a retcon like everything else - in The Host the symbiont took over the host's body, in DS9 it's a merging of the two.

No need to over-think it too much, just the evolution of a concept when it jumped from a one-shot TNG episode to being used regularly in DS9.

T'Girl November 5 2012 07:33 PM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
Quote:

Tosk wrote: (Post 7205389)
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 7205299)
The slug just plain takes over and has fun with the host body.

I can't think of a single example of the symbiote completely dominating the host in DS9.

In Jadzia's case it might have been a slower take over than Timo is describing, Jadzia did over time transform into the "Klingon Party-girl." That is not the Jadzia we first saw, and may have been an example of Dax gradually asserting itself upon Jadzia's personality, over writing it.

Given a few more years of DS9, Ezra herself might have transformed into another copy of the "Klingon Party-girl.'

Quote:

Sandoval wrote: (Post 7206748)
in The Host the symbiont took over the host's body

To be fair, the slug took over Riker. It's hard to say if the slug cold take over the species of the female who was the third host in that episode.

Some have described her initial demeaner as "stiff." Instead I was describe it as "scared." Her situation was similar to Ezra's. She was the only suitable long term host in range and the circumstances choose her. She might not have wanted to be a host at all, civic duty took over.

:)

Drago-Kazov November 5 2012 10:42 PM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
Wasn't this retconed in the books somehow?

Tiberius November 6 2012 12:45 AM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
Quote:

Bry_Sinclair wrote: (Post 7198723)
In my fanfic continuity, I have retconned the original look of the Trill in favour of the spotted variety (seeing as how they were better established) and stick more closely to DS9's portrayal, whilst the transporters harming Joined Trill may be so for a small minority, but for most it isn't an issue.

Well, we saw that Odan was waving the technodoodle thing over his belly, so it may be that the symbiont was recovering from some medical procedure and that had weakened it to a point where the transporter would kill it.

Mr. Laser Beam November 6 2012 12:50 AM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
Quote:

Drago-Kazov wrote: (Post 7208467)
Wasn't this retconed in the books somehow?

If you're referring to the appearance, yes it was:


R. Star November 6 2012 01:05 AM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
I've heard it said that Riker was completely taken over because he wasn't Trill and couldn't form a symbiosis with the symbiant. Sorta makes sense.

Drago-Kazov November 6 2012 12:53 PM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
He iust wanted to ad Crusher to his list.

Bry_Sinclair November 6 2012 03:13 PM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 7207087)
In Jadzia's case it might have been a slower take over than Timo is describing, Jadzia did over time transform into the "Klingon Party-girl." That is not the Jadzia we first saw, and may have been an example of Dax gradually asserting itself upon Jadzia's personality, over writing it.

I'm sure I read/saw somewhere that the original idea for Dax was a wise old sage in a young woman's body, but over time they realised that she was the kind of person who was always up for an adventure, so her character changed over time.

It kind of fits as well, seeing as how adjusting to being Joined would take time and adjustment to find the balance between both halves and all the previous lives.

Sandoval November 7 2012 12:14 AM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7209304)
A strain of the Klingon Augment virus manages to infect a Trill colony. That's why some Trill hosts had ridges.

This sort of need to explain away stuff done by the makeup department just makes me shake my head...

Tiberius November 7 2012 12:46 AM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
Quote:

Sandoval wrote: (Post 7215412)
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7209304)
A strain of the Klingon Augment virus manages to infect a Trill colony. That's why some Trill hosts had ridges.

This sort of need to explain away stuff done by the makeup department just makes me shake my head...

Yeah, enough with the fanwanking.

Next we're going to be hearing about how the Enterprise was using a new weapons system based on the Cardassian Dreadnaught with torpedoes that are equipped with warp engines, phasers and other cool stuff, and they were using one in "Darmok". Unfortunately, when the phaser systems went offline, the only phaser emitter they had was on their experimental torpedo, which was unfortunately stuck in the torpedo tube because geordi had got the measurements wrong. Luckily they were able to fire the phaser beam from the spiffy torpedo out through the end of the torpedo launcher, and that's why we see phaser fire coming from the torpedo tube.

Geez, just let it go, people!!!

Unicron November 7 2012 12:55 AM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
Quote:

Tosk wrote: (Post 7205389)
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 7205299)
As for a "balanced" joining, I don't really see signs of that in DS9. The slug just plain takes over and has fun with the host body.

I can't think of a single example of the symbiote completely dominating the host in DS9.

All of Dax's hosts have wildly varying personalities, which would seemingly preclude Dax being the sole pilot.

Dax does mention in one ep (I'd have to look it up - it's one of the earlier ones where she's helping to train an initiate) that the grueling nature of the training is an unpleasant necessity, to ensure that the symbiont's traits don't dominate the host's. She also mentions in the same episode that she still gets echoes and sensations associated with those of her former hosts, and not specifically with Jadzia. Those traits can surface in some ways even in the most ideal balance for a joined Trill, and presumably is just part of the experience.

Sandoval November 7 2012 01:00 AM

Re: The Host and Continuity
 
Quote:

Ti-BOO!-rius wrote: (Post 7215694)
Quote:

Sandoval wrote: (Post 7215412)
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7209304)
A strain of the Klingon Augment virus manages to infect a Trill colony. That's why some Trill hosts had ridges.

This sort of need to explain away stuff done by the makeup department just makes me shake my head...

Yeah, enough with the fanwanking.

Next we're going to be hearing about how the Enterprise was using a new weapons system based on the Cardassian Dreadnaught with torpedoes that are equipped with warp engines, phasers and other cool stuff, and they were using one in "Darmok". Unfortunately, when the phaser systems went offline, the only phaser emitter they had was on their experimental torpedo, which was unfortunately stuck in the torpedo tube because geordi had got the measurements wrong. Luckily they were able to fire the phaser beam from the spiffy torpedo out through the end of the torpedo launcher, and that's why we see phaser fire coming from the torpedo tube.

Geez, just let it go, people!!!

Amen brother.


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