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Deckerd November 3 2012 10:03 PM

Merlin getting better and better
This episode was like a different show altogether. It's getting darker. You can feel the sense of doom about everything. I really hope they don't fuck it up and finish this season on a cliffhanger.

Snaploud November 4 2012 12:22 AM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
Season five of Merlin won't be airing in the U.S. until January, so I can't really comment. It's good to hear positive news about the episodes, though.

Guy Gardener November 4 2012 04:21 AM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
Season 5 Merlin won't be airing in New Zealand until 2017 so I shouldn't be able to possibly comment either.


I thought this mornings episode was a mess as far as every other episode is concerned.

Uthur and Arthur are Hitler, and magic users are Jews, Gays and Gypsies.

There's no getting around that.

Both Uthur and Arthur's resolve on that issue is absolute until it isn't... Usually when one of them is dying. Suddenly and briefly magic is cool.

If you use magic and you're not them, they will tie you to a stake, burn you to death, and call it justice.

Ask Gwen about her father.

So what did we have here?

The Popettes of the old religion, top bitches (that's accurate. Top dog, top bitch.) of everything, who the destruction thereof would see magic ultimately crippled and never to return to the 5 kingdoms ever again...

Imagine if Chuck De Gaulle and Hitler had high tea every second Thursday during the second world war?

Lambs laying down with lions?

By law, which Arthur did mention for half a second, and then forgot to follow up on that they were criminals who needed a good hanging... Arthur should have showed up with 2000 men, siege apparatus and fire. Oil, wine, grease, whatever they needed to turn that holy, sacred cave into a kiln.

Meanwhile how did it even get to that?

A fricking wizard says "Hi, I have a cursed object that I want to give you, have you ever been cursed before, yes? Well this time it's going to be a little bit more fun. Just take it."

If a wizard tries to give you a cursed talisman, you cut his head off before it makes contact with your flesh and the circuit is complete, or shit is going to get real

It's almost like Arthur hasn't been paying attention.

But he had to be reverent and respectful to other peoples religions... Do unto others?

It's the civil thing to do.


Reverence and respect my ass.

Those three were Al-Qaeda.

Terrorist leaders with terrorist ideals who were going to turn Camelot into a smoking hole, and rather than try to kill them, he decided to piss them off.

Poke the bear Arthur, poke the fucking bear!

Where do you draw the line between cpr and necrophillia?

Of course then he goes the other way and shows too much respect for enemies that have already decided to kill him.

Too little, too late.

It may be easier to say sorry than please, but when you're king, it's even easier to kill thousands, destroy cities and salt the earth.

The Romans knew how to hold onto an Empire.

Another movie metaphor?

Arthur was Dustin Hoffman and those witches were the outbreak monkey.

Sure Arthur is not his father, but also he had no reason to trust these witches to treat him fairly and even if they treated him fairly, there was still no certainty that he still wouldn't be found guilty and destroyed... Found guilty by a court he had dedicated his life to undermining and destroying because it's evil and illegal!

Arthur submitting to those women makes him complicit in the old religion and guilty of practising magic and someone should tie him to a stake and set him on fire for being criminally hypocritical.

This story started over 10 years ago.

Arthur and Merlin have got to be pushing 30.

Everyone who believed that Arthur was going to bring back magic has got to finally be figuring out that this kid has not got it in him, as they watch all their friends, family and mates from church get strung up and quartered.

Yes it's nice to see Merlin actually letting Mordred die.

But now that he cocked that up, get that magic stick of yours and melt his face off.

Morganna too.

Cowboy up.

Last year.

When he killed Agravane it was just so anticlimactic.

There was no reason that he couldn't have done that in episode two or three before everything came to a boil. the kingdom had been lost and Morganna legalized magic and he still kept his secret so that Arthur could be put back on the throne and recriminalize magic.

Arthur is not a good king.

Merlin needs to take him out.

I think that if Morganna was allowed to torture Arthur for a couple days before killing him, that would rid her system of all that bile and she'd be back to being that nice girl we knew in season one.

Then she could marry Emris and bring magic back to the 5 kingdoms as the Queen of Camelot.

Merlin backed the wrong horse.

Deckerd November 4 2012 11:03 AM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
I think the fact that Arthur now listens to Merlin and actually takes his advice is a quantum leap in their relationship. He asked Merlin "do I allow sorcery back into my kingdom?" It was a pivotal moment. Merlin got it wrong, but for pure reasons. If they did have the courage of their convictions and kill Arthur at the end of this series it would have been too soon according to most legends. Which is why, I suppose, they decided to make more. However the doom-laden atmos is first class. Something bad is going down.

Guy Gardener November 4 2012 12:29 PM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
Merlin's reasons for lying to Arthur, which were the same reasons he needed to kill Mordred were not pure.

Haven't you seen minority report?

Every time the Dragon said "Kill Mordred" or "Kill Morganna" and Merlin said "no", that was about purity.

killing innocent people for crimes they have yet to committed is wrong.

Even if they're asshoels.

He was killing for vague and uncertain reasons.

I don't think Arthur is listening any less or more than he has before, but yes that was a superb moment of transition Merlin fumbled.

And what the hell was that "Would you risk your life to save me?" clap trap? Arthur, Gwen and Morganna cowboyed up and rode out to Merlin's village and fought off Julian Bashir and then something like that happened every other week too.

I want big multi episode stories.

They can do it.

All these bottle episodes are for poop.

Roshi November 4 2012 01:02 PM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
Whuuuut???? 'Cause I couldn't get through the 5 first minutes of the season opener, so I bailed out. And you're telling me it's getting better?

Deckerd November 4 2012 04:58 PM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
And betterer.

Guy I think you're wrong because Merlin didn't try to kill Mordred, he merely tried to allow the witches to succeed. His error was in misinterpreting what they were doing. When Gaius said to him he was the only one who could save him it was clearly wrong since Arthur already knew there was another way and there was no guarantee Merlin could have countermanded the spell. It's not like he's all powerful or perfect. Nor is Arthur. But between them they could make something mighty.

They were never supposed to be perfect. Or wise. They've blundered around for 4 seasons but now, at last they're becoming wise. It's probably too late but that doesn't make it any less gripping.

Starkers November 4 2012 05:20 PM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
Between having a headache and fireworks going off outside every 20 seconds I probably didn't enjoy last nights as much as I should have, but crikey did Merlin ever make the wrong choice!! That was a really powerful scene, if ever there was a moment for Merlin to come clean that was it, but he chose Arthur over magic...

Guy Gardener November 5 2012 02:10 AM

Re: Merlin getting better and better

Frau Blucher wrote: (Post 7200943)
And betterer.

Guy I think you're wrong because Merlin didn't try to kill Mordred, he merely tried to allow the witches to succeed. His error was in misinterpreting what they were doing. When Gaius said to him he was the only one who could save him it was clearly wrong since Arthur already knew there was another way and there was no guarantee Merlin could have countermanded the spell. It's not like he's all powerful or perfect. Nor is Arthur. But between them they could make something mighty.

Your friend is drowning in a spa pool. You could easily save them, but you'd rather microwave some popcorn and enjoy the show.

Is that murder?

(the fictional character) Jerry Seinfeld got locked up for a year for criminal indifference, but this wasn't indifference this was premeditated neglect.

You know how they say an omission is as good as a lie?

Same difference.

Deckerd November 5 2012 11:01 AM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
But it's still not murder. Mordred (had he died) would have been killed by others. His actions were deliberate but his intentions were good.

Obviously this Thing Unsaid is not done and dusted, since in all the legends, Arthur knew what Merlin was and used him accordingly.

Although it was a great scene, I wonder why Arthur didn't pick up on how distressed Merlin was. That was the only thing that marred it. If he had just asked him it might have been so different.

Starkers November 5 2012 11:10 AM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
Yeah I agree, whilst it was a great performance by colin Morgan I did keep waiting for Arthur to go... "Merlin, are you crying?" I guess it was dark, and they had a flickering fire between them.

Still seems a bit unfair of the Dsir to judge Arthur, given how much fairer things are under him, and whilst sorcery is still outlawed, Camelot is moving towards a notion of tolerance for other beliefs at least. Rather than giving him time, perhaps nudging him along, instead they decide to go on an all out attack, which is just as likely to drive Arthur back towards what Uther was like.

Stoopid old religion'ers!

Deckerd November 5 2012 11:39 AM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
Well it does underline the problems with sorcery: hubris being one of the worst. Just because they're powerful doesn't make them right.

Guy Gardener November 5 2012 01:39 PM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
Arthur thinks everything is better.

And as far he can see, literally as far as he can see, it might appear better for a hundred yards in every direction from where he's standing, but for everyone that obeyed the law and kept their nose clean,how bad was Camelot under Uthur? He slaughtered magic users, but that's about it... Has Arthur created a house of commons, or a social welfare system or reduced taxes or...

He lets a couple commoners become knights, and marries another... But want about the thousands of other dung herders trying to make ends meet? I can't imagine that their lives have really changed at all.

Yes, I am Mr negative, but how is Camelot amazingly better under Arthur than Uthur, since as far as Arthur is concerned Uthur was a top chap and the only thing they disagreed about was shagging Gwen?

I suppose if you count the month where Morganna was in charge and she taxed the shit out of every one until they couldn't feed their children, compared to that, even Uthur was a fabulous King, but after 20 years of killing everyone that used magic, what minority scattering collection of dying out druids and wizards could lobby the kings ear politically anyway?

Sometimes I think of magic here as an allegory for homosexuality and other times I thing of it was comparable to how the law misunderstands and abuses pot though the legal system just because a hundred years ago because William Randolf Hearst said "I don't care if it's cheaper and safer to make rope and clothing and textiles out of hemp, because I have a billion dollar monopoly on US cotton."

But wouldn't it be funny if like during US prohibition that ordinary people just got smarter about how they used magic and that EVERYONE still used magic during their daily lives as a convenience but the king was too pig ignorant to notice?

Deckerd November 5 2012 03:10 PM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
Everyone can't use magic though. It's not like Alera.

Guy Gardener November 5 2012 07:57 PM

Re: Merlin getting better and better
Everyone may not be able to make an enchanted broom that selfcleans up their hovel, but they can certainly buy one that can take care of business, when such things were legal.

Uthur was more like Pol Pot who tried to wind back the clock and insist that the 20th century wasn't happening.

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