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Tom November 1 2012 07:58 PM

Section 31 after DS9
 
So I was thinking of writing some post-DS9 (maybe abut 10-15 years after) fan fiction.

I was thinking about doing something with Section 31but some questions popped up. After Sloan died we were left to wonder is is Section 31 is gone? was it just Sloan?

Lets say it was not just Sloan, if there were other involved and Starfleet officials caught up and apprehended them. Could Section 31 ever be a legit yet still secret agency with in Starfleet?

Does section 31 have to much of a bad history (attempted genocide etc..) for Starfleet to use them in a more controlled manor?

Should Starfleet abolish S31 and try to have some other type of black-ops agency?

Should S31 always remain a more rogue agency that answers to no one in order to protect the Federation?

bullethead November 1 2012 09:31 PM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
Quote:

Tom wrote: (Post 7188784)
I was thinking about doing something with Section 31but some questions popped up. After Sloan died we were left to wonder is is Section 31 is gone? was it just Sloan?

I think it's fairly absurd to think that Sloane was all there was to Section 31. Sure, one man could've pulled the entire Changeling virus thing off, but it seems way more plausible if it's a larger operation.

Quote:

Lets say it was not just Sloan, if there were other involved and Starfleet officials caught up and apprehended them. Could Section 31 ever be a legit yet still secret agency with in Starfleet?
How would they find the rest of Section 31 anyway? They're not a formal organization, just a large group of like-minded and highly competent individuals working to protect the Federation. The only time you're going know of Section 31 involvement is when someone reports it and during the Dominion War, I can see a large majority of Starfleet members colluding with them and not reporting it. People like Bashir are going to be the outliers, especially along the front lines.

Quote:

Does section 31 have to much of a bad history (attempted genocide etc..) for Starfleet to use them in a more controlled manor?
For the Federation and the Starfleet higher-ups, probably yes, because they almost always put principles before pragmatism. The only times they don't are events that are easily swept under the rugs.

Quote:

Should Starfleet abolish S31 and try to have some other type of black-ops agency?
No to abolishing Section 31, because like I said earlier, it's not an actual organization they can shutdown, and they already have black ops. It's called Starfleet Intelligence.

Quote:

Should S31 always remain a more rogue agency that answers to no one in order to protect the Federation?
Yes, because from what we've seen, most of the upper echelons of Starfleet Command takes forever to realize a threat until it's staring them in the face (and sometimes even after, in the case of the Borg) and doesn't take anywhere near the measures they should to combat those threats.

Mr. Laser Beam November 1 2012 09:36 PM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
Section 31, by its very nature, can never be "legit". It's just as much an enemy to the Federation (despite its constant bitching that it "protects" said Federation) as any other hostile superpower.

As for post-DS9:


Lindley November 1 2012 09:45 PM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
It makes one wonder whether, with Section 31 gone, the Federation might suddenly find itself on much dicier ground.....

Just because their methods are distasteful doesn't mean they weren't effective!

R. Star November 1 2012 09:52 PM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
To assume Sloan was the end all of Section 31 is absurd. He probably was the organization's higher ups, but they'd survive his loss easily. The Starfleet line towards Section 31 has been at every demonstrated opportunity to shake their heads, say it's terrible, say it's against everything Starfleet stands for, then turn a blind eye while they get their dirty work done. As Odo said, it's a tidy arrangement.

Mr. Laser Beam November 1 2012 09:54 PM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
Quote:

Lindley wrote: (Post 7189213)
It makes one wonder whether, with Section 31 gone, the Federation might suddenly find itself on much dicier ground.....

Just because their methods are distasteful doesn't mean they weren't effective!

Then it's up to the Federation to make Starfleet Intelligence that effective - and, unlike S31, do it within the bounds of the law. Don't tell me they can't do it, either. There's nothing S31 can do illegally that SI can't do legally. And if there is, it shouldn't ever happen in the first place.

King Daniel Into Darkness November 1 2012 11:25 PM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
In the forthcoming fan series pilot Star Trek: Renegades, Tim Russ is reprising his role as Tuvok, now head of the "reformed" Section 31.

Mr. Laser Beam November 1 2012 11:28 PM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
^ Oh bloody hell. :rolleyes:

Tuvok would be one of the last Trek characters I would EVER expect to support Section 31 in any form. I'd more expect him to be leading the charge against it. In fact, in mainstream Treklit, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did have a part in Section 31's demise.

Hartzilla2007 November 1 2012 11:35 PM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7189270)
Quote:

Lindley wrote: (Post 7189213)
It makes one wonder whether, with Section 31 gone, the Federation might suddenly find itself on much dicier ground.....

Just because their methods are distasteful doesn't mean they weren't effective!

Then it's up to the Federation to make Starfleet Intelligence that effective - and, unlike S31, do it within the bounds of the law. Don't tell me they can't do it, either. There's nothing S31 can do illegally that SI can't do legally. And if there is, it shouldn't ever happen in the first place.

Heck Kirk and Spock were able to pull off a sort of black op to get a cloaking device and they didn't need some amoral criminal organization to pull it off, so SI shouldn't have trouble doing as they have way more resources.

Of course in some instances like sneaking into hostile territory to steal or destroy some horrible weapon or other power balance changing piece of tech they could use Section 31's name a reputation to give the federation plausible deniability if they can't play the crazy commander card.

King Daniel Into Darkness November 1 2012 11:53 PM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7189690)
^ Oh bloody hell. :rolleyes:

Tuvok would be one of the last Trek characters I would EVER expect to support Section 31 in any form. I'd more expect him to be leading the charge against it. In fact, in mainstream Treklit, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did have a part in Section 31's demise.

Oh, I agree totally. But I suspect this fan movie/pilot (should it meet it's Kickstarter goal and be made) will be quite prolific, and so the OP should know about about it.

Mr. Laser Beam November 2 2012 12:02 AM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
^ Perhaps this is part of Tuvok's plan...to ascend to leadership of Section 31 and destroy it from within. A double agent.

Hartzilla2007 November 2 2012 02:26 AM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7189822)
^ Perhaps this is part of Tuvok's plan...to ascend to leadership of Section 31 and destroy it from within. A double agent.

Wouldn't the whole reformed thing kind of imply their probably an official federation organization in this thing?

Mr. Laser Beam November 2 2012 02:29 AM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
An organization like Section 31 cannot, by definition, be reformed. Except by its destruction.

Section 31 is a criminal conspiracy, nothing more. You can't reform that. You can only destroy it.

The official Federation organization already exists - it's Starfleet Intelligence. They have the right to exist; S31 does not.

teacake November 2 2012 04:35 AM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
Quote:

Hartzilla2007 wrote: (Post 7190500)
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 7189822)
^ Perhaps this is part of Tuvok's plan...to ascend to leadership of Section 31 and destroy it from within. A double agent.

Wouldn't the whole reformed thing kind of imply their probably an official federation organization in this thing?

It seems pointless, it would be on par with Starfleet Intelligence, only no one would know its name.

Though I'm sure Starfleet Intelligence had it's paws in the muck plenty of times.

I loved Section 31, anything to knock the evolved human fancy off its pedestal.

Tom November 2 2012 03:23 PM

Re: Section 31 after DS9
 
Thanks for the input on this!


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