The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Star Trek - Original Series (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=38)
-   -   The characters and universe post-TOS (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=191791)

King Daniel Into Darkness October 21 2012 05:32 PM

The characters and universe post-TOS
 
Do you think the TOS characters and Trek universe were handled correctly in the movies and beyond? In TMP, a mere 2-1/2 years after TOS/TAS, Kirk had become an Admiral, Spock and McCoy had left Starfleet, Chekov became a security officer, the Enterprise had a new captain and was rebuilt and unrecognizable. In the next movie set about a decade later, Spock is commanding the Enterprise, now a cadet training vessel. By the end of STIV, everything's pretty much been reset to TOS, but with higher ranks.

Does anyone who thinks the movies were a mis-step have ideas about what should have happened post-TOS?

BillJ October 21 2012 06:57 PM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
My only regret is that we haven't really had any good stories set between the end of TOS and TMP. Pocket's offerings have always been lackluster.

Galileo7 October 21 2012 07:53 PM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
In WOK Chekov was first officer of the Reliant and Spock was captain the refit Enterprise on a cadet training mission. As you stated the films always wanted to reset everyone back onto one ship namely the refit Enterprise with the exception of in TUC Sulu was captain of the Excelsior. I think it would have been more interesting if in WOK Chekov was the captain of the Reliant and in TSFS Sulu was already given the captain's chair of the Excelsior. :vulcan:

T'Girl October 21 2012 08:11 PM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 7136302)
a mere 2-1/2 years after

The two and a half year figure is for Kirk's time as Chief of Starfleet Operations. The Enterprise rebuild was one and a half years. We know from the TNG episode Cause and Effect the year they were already wearing the maroon jacketed uniform coats. Captain Kelsey said it out loud.

Problem is in canon we don't exactly know when the TOS five year mission took place, which years. That part is loose conjecture.

Between the time the Enterprise returned to Earth and the events of TMP, up to a decade easily could have passed.

My personal preference is that after fairly brief refit, command of the Enterprise was turned over to Will Decker and he took her out again. Years and many missions later, Decker brought the Enterprise back to Earth (by this time Kirk is already CoSO) and the rebuild process began.

A year and a half after that, the events seen in the first movie.

:)

Robert D. Robot October 21 2012 09:19 PM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
^ Interesting idea, T'Girl! I like that timeline, and it makes good sense to me.

Galileo7 October 21 2012 10:02 PM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 7137025)
Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 7136302)
a mere 2-1/2 years after

The two and a half year figure is for Kirk's time as Chief of Starfleet Operations. The Enterprise rebuild was one and a half years. We know from the TNG episode Cause and Effect the year they were already wearing the maroon jacketed uniform coats. Captain Kelsey said it out loud.

Problem is in canon we don't exactly know when the TOS five year mission took place, which years. That part is loose conjecture.

Between the time the Enterprise returned to Earth and the events of TMP, up to a decade easily could have passed.

My personal preference is that after fairly brief refit, command of the Enterprise was turned over to Will Decker and he took her out again. Years and many missions later, Decker brought the Enterprise back to Earth (by this time Kirk is already CoSO) and the rebuild process began.

A year and a half after that, the events seen in the first movie.

:)


Star Trek Voyager episode "Q2" established that Kirk's five year mission actually ended in 2270.:vulcan:

Bry_Sinclair October 22 2012 02:19 PM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
In TMP, I liked the idea of Decker in command, with a couple of new faces on the crew, whilst keeping a few legends onboard to see them through.

The later films, it just seems kinda nuts that they would still be serving together for thirty-odd years. Spock was a Captain in his own right, he should have had an Oberth-Class science ship, maybe taken Chekov along with him. Scotty should have transferred to the Excelsior, with him onboard then transwarp would have been a success. Sulu should have had a ship of his own by TWOK, maybe the Reliant, though he'd survive the encounter with Khan. Uhura could have made Captain, or at the very least XO. Leave Kirk on the Enterprise with Bones for company and a new crew of ambitious go-getters.

Duncan MacLeod October 22 2012 03:14 PM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
Alternately you could leave Kirk as an admiral commanding a squadron, with his old bridge crew as the commanders of the ships making up the squadron.

Grant October 22 2012 07:29 PM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
Quote:

Duncan MacLeod wrote: (Post 7139818)
Alternately you could leave Kirk as an admiral commanding a squadron, with his old bridge crew as the commanders of the ships making up the squadron.

A squadron implies they are a straight up miltiary force and not exploritory vessels anymore.

That's just not Trek. A bunch of ships together in force wouldn't help dramatic storytelling.

Khan takes over a Starfleet vessel and encounters Kirk's squadron?

jayrath October 23 2012 07:05 PM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
For all of of its faults, TMP was the only movie during which I really felt we were in space.

KeepOnTrekking October 24 2012 12:11 AM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
Despite Gene Roddenberry saying that Shatner was the start of Star Trek, I always felt that Spock was the center of attention. TOS was more or less the 1st 5-year mission where Spock lives according to his Vulcan ideals and denying his human side.

I have no problems with STTMP. Spock encounters V'Ger ande recognizes finally the value of his human side.

I prefer believing that there was a 2nd 5-year mission after STTMP where Spock begins exploring the meaning of being human and all the discoveries he will make in the process. Kirk and McCoy would still be an important part of that. But the secondary characters could also step up and play more meaningful roles in Spock's education in the human nature.

Uhura would represent love. Not necessarily as a romantic interest for Spock like in ST2009 but as someone who would mentor Spock in learning to appreciate people a step further than appreciating their diversity in accordance with IDIC.

Chapel would represent the idea of hope. In the novel Vulcan! by Kathleen Sky, Dr. Tremain agreed to help Spock develop his imagination that was stunted by his logical reasoning ways. Although I didn't care for the character of Tremain and her bigotry I did like that idea of helping Spock in developing his imagination and saw that as an ideal job for Chapel instead.

I never cared for the backstory of Saavik as an orphan on Hellgaard. Personally, I liked the idea of her being the daughter of Spock and the Romulan Commander from "Enterprise Incident." The way the Commander spun around in her chair when Kirk and Spock first met her is remarkably similar to how we are introduced to Saavik in STII as she spins around in the Captain's chair. Like mother, like daughter maybe in habits? Kirstie Alley said that she always practiced being like Spock and wanting to play his daughter but playing Saavik was the next best thing. Maybe closer than she thought? I like that idea. ;)

Although Spock accepted the value of his emotions in STTMP, I still see him as leaning towards the humanistic or atheist end. McCoy, on the other hand, seemed to drop an occasional reference in his speech that might hint at a religious side. This could be a whole new battleground for Spock and McCoy to explore graduating from logic vs. emotion to humanism vs. religion. Spock died in ST II and came back to life. We see McCoy toying with him in ST IV about "life, death, and things of that nature." I'm not saying that Spock would accept Christianity or a religious point of view but I believe he would be curious enough intellectually to explore any possibility of its value before either accepting or rejecting. Lots of story line potential there as a running character arc for a 2nd 5-year mission after STTMP and leading up to ST II.

I'm not expecting everyone to agree with my views. Just sharing my personal take or reboot of the TOS universe.:)

Drago-Kazov October 26 2012 10:56 AM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
Quote:

Grant wrote: (Post 7140940)
Quote:

Duncan MacLeod wrote: (Post 7139818)
Alternately you could leave Kirk as an admiral commanding a squadron, with his old bridge crew as the commanders of the ships making up the squadron.

A squadron implies they are a straight up miltiary force and not exploritory vessels anymore.

That's just not Trek. A bunch of ships together in force wouldn't help dramatic storytelling.

Khan takes over a Starfleet vessel and encounters Kirk's squadron?

Did Starfleet became a straight military force during the Dominion War?

Bry_Sinclair October 26 2012 11:35 AM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
Starfleet is the military of the Federation, however they aren't a military as we know it. Their focus is much wider and has a far greater remit than conventional ones, however during conflict the focus would shift from exploration and peacekeeping missions to combat operations.

To that end I have no problem with terms like 'squadron' or 'wing' being used to describe a collection of ships smaller than a fleet.

Drago-Kazov October 26 2012 11:40 AM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
They could make temporary adjustment then change everything back.

sbk1234 October 26 2012 04:47 PM

Re: The characters and universe post-TOS
 
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 7137025)
Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 7136302)
a mere 2-1/2 years after

The two and a half year figure is for Kirk's time as Chief of Starfleet Operations. The Enterprise rebuild was one and a half years. We know from the TNG episode Cause and Effect the year they were already wearing the maroon jacketed uniform coats. Captain Kelsey said it out loud.

Problem is in canon we don't exactly know when the TOS five year mission took place, which years. That part is loose conjecture.

Between the time the Enterprise returned to Earth and the events of TMP, up to a decade easily could have passed.

My personal preference is that after fairly brief refit, command of the Enterprise was turned over to Will Decker and he took her out again. Years and many missions later, Decker brought the Enterprise back to Earth (by this time Kirk is already CoSO) and the rebuild process began.

A year and a half after that, the events seen in the first movie.

:)


I like that, too. I agree that it seems a bit contrived that the core group stayed together all those years in the same jobs.
I always figured that McCoy, Uhura, and Sulu were all on Kirk's staff as an admiral, which would explain why they were there in TWOK. Yes, they were still together, but at least they'd be doing different jobs.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:21 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.