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-   -   Starfleet's biggest jerks? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=190045)

Vito Corleone October 4 2012 12:27 AM

Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
http://www.startrek.com/article/one-...-biggest-jerks

I have 3 bones to pick with this article/blog/whatever it is...

1.) I don't think of Commander Shelby as a jerk, just a little too dedicated to her job. It also seems like most of her career was spent in a lab, a starbase or a shore assignment. That would explain why she didn't seem to know/care about how things work in a ship's chain of command.

2.) Admirals Morrow and Nechayev are more bureaucratic and concerned with Fleet Politics, than just a simple jerk. Most people in their position would act the way they did.

3.) Captain Jellico... Yeah... That is a guy who has some combat experience and thinks like a Soldier instead of an Explorer. Kinda gruff but, I've had worse superiors in my job.

The Wormhole October 4 2012 01:26 AM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
I'm not registered over there, so here are the ones I disagree with:

Admiral Morrow: From his perspective, a high ranking officer wanted to go to a restricted planet for the purposes of helping someone who had been declared dead. It's understandable he didn't authorize it.

Admiral Nechayev: Both sides of the Hugh argument are perfectly valid. While I agree that Picard made the right call, I don't think Nechayev is a jerk just because she favored using Hugh as a weapon.

Commander Harkins: Yes, Barclay had the right idea which was evetually proven, truth is, Barclay was acting out of line throughout the episode, and as his commanding officer, Harkins had to get after him. If Harkins is a jerk, then so is every boss who has ever reprimanded an employee.

DonIago October 4 2012 01:56 AM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
This is a pretty weak list IMO. Dougherty and Kenneally (spelling?) don't make the cut?

T'Girl October 4 2012 07:01 AM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
Quote:

Alynna Nechayev -- To destroy the Borg using Hugh as genocidal malware is just wrong, and no amount of pips on the collar can change that.
IIRC the "malware" would have severed the connects between the Borg drones, basically it would have freed the Borg, turning them back into individuals. Some undoubtedly would have died, many others would have survived.

Hardly genocide.

Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 7052098)
While I agree that Picard made the right call, I don't think Nechayev is a jerk just because she favored using Hugh as a weapon.

Nechayev figured out that it's permissible to harm your enemies soldiers, even if they're conscripts and slaves. And there is actually no way to tell if Hugh would have been harmed by the process.

:devil::devil::devil:

DonIago October 4 2012 07:03 AM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
I'm pretty sure you're not recalling correctly.

Dream October 4 2012 07:05 AM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
Does anyone know why Vito Corleone's user name is colored RED? :confused:

DonIago October 4 2012 07:44 AM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
Speculation else-thread was that it meant they'd been flagged for some reason. Or possibly had done something clever when they set-up their username.

BillJ October 4 2012 12:47 PM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
I liked Jellico. Tells you exactly what his expectations are without beating around the bush. Wish I had more supervisors like that when I was working in the corporate world. It's the crew, especially Riker, who come off as jerks in the episode.

"Wahhhhhhh!!! That's not the way Picard does it!"

horatio83 October 4 2012 12:54 PM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
Nechayev is not a jerk. She is a tough nut, not too friendly and has hawkish military views so she often clashes with Picard but that doesn't make her a jerk. Jellico is not a jerk either, he is merely an incompetent captain who lacks leadership skills and in an ideal world should have never risen beyond the rank of Lt.Cmdr.

BillJ October 4 2012 12:58 PM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
Quote:

horatio83 wrote: (Post 7054057)
Jellico is not a jerk either, he is merely an incompetent captain who lacks leadership skills and in an ideal world should have never risen beyond the rank of Lt.Cmdr.

So incompetent that he headed off a war, saved Picard from Starfleet ineptitude and made the Cardassians look silly.

Why do people keep confusing leadership skills with coddling?

horatio83 October 4 2012 01:15 PM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
What a nonsensical one-dimensional categorization. Picard is quite strict and disciplined but he is not ordering people to do something just for the sake of being able to show that he is the boss. He takes his crew seriously, listens to them and then makes his decision. He also encourages his crew to think on their own and to question unjust authority (Allegiance).
Contagion neatly illustrates the deep trust between him and his senior officers. When Geordi arrives at the bridge and is thrown out of the turbolift he shouts that the probe has to be destroyed. Picard knows that Geordi would never say this if he did not have a good reason so he immediately does what he told him.
Somebody like Jellico who merely relies on the chain of command and does not care to establish a mutual sense of trust would have reacted differently in this situation which might have lead very well to the destruction of the Enterprise.

BillJ October 4 2012 01:26 PM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
Quote:

horatio83 wrote: (Post 7054102)
What a nonsensical one-dimensional categorization. Picard is quite strict and disciplined but he is not ordering people to do something just for the sake of being able to show that he is the boss. He takes his crew seriously, listens to them and then makes his decision. He also encourages his crew to think on their own and to question unjust authority (Allegiance).
Contagion neatly illustrates the deep trust between him and his senior officers. When Geordi arrives at the bridge and is thrown out of the turbolift he shouts that the probe has to be destroyed. Picard knows that Geordi would never say this if he did not have a good reason so he immediately does what he told him.
Somebody like Jellico who merely relies on the chain of command and does not care to establish a mutual sense of trust would have reacted differently in this situation which might have lead very well to the destruction of the Enterprise.

You mean like when Jellico forced LaForge to fly the mission instead of swallowing his pride and asking Riker to do it?

Riker questioned Picard's first order and was essentially told to shut his mouth and carry out the order. Jellico was much nicer to Riker during their first encounter and then got irritated when Riker didn't carry the order out.

Bry_Sinclair October 4 2012 01:34 PM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
Admiral Morrow is a flag officer who has to look at the bigger picture, rather than just stroke Kirk's ego.

I can't remember Ronald Tracy, but didn't he go a little mad?

Alynna Nechayev is a forthright and strong-willed woman, who is obviously very good at what she does to have made Admiral and be put in charge of several big, important operations. She may not be in the Picard fan club, but that hardly makes her a jerk.

Peter Harkins I don't know, I'd lost all interest in VOY by then so I can't really comment.

Commander Shelby is an ambitious go-getter, the kind of officer that really deserved a post on the E-D, but was beaten off by frumpy Riker, who comes off more of a jerk than she did.

Admiral Leyton has jerk-like qualities, and his attempt to explain away his actions as being for the greater good are a little worrying.

Admiral Cartwright was alright in TVH, but does turn into something of a jerk in TUC.

Commissioner Ferris is another character I don't remember, so can't say either way.

Edward Jellico wasn't my favourite character, but I'd hardly call him a jerk for that. He had a very different way of doing things and didn't make friends with the TNG crew, because they weren't his crew--so of course there would be butting of heads.

Bruce Maddox is a jerk.

The Wormhole October 4 2012 01:43 PM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
Truth is Jellico is exactly the kind of person you usually see in the real world in these types of positions, be it captain of a ship or a civilian position with equal authority and responsiblities. Truth is, at times you have to be a jerk or an asshole to be effective in those jobs. Sure we all love to have bosses who are more approachable and can shoot the shit with, but a lot of the time that's not practical and can lead to more problems than a stern Jellico-style boss will.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I noticed one of the things that article used against Jellico was that he made Deanna Troi wear the "not sexy" standard uniform. But I thought the general consensus was that she looked better in a regular uniform, and that's why they continued to have her wear one for the rest of the series?

Hartzilla2007 October 4 2012 01:55 PM

Re: Starfleet's biggest jerks?
 
Quote:

Bry_Sinclair wrote: (Post 7054156)
I can't remember Ronald Tracy, but didn't he go a little mad?

Yeah, he also killed a s@#tload off the locals and a redshirt and then tried to bring Kirk and Co. down with him

Honestly he was worse than a jerk.

Quote:

Peter Harkins I don't know, I'd lost all interest in VOY by then so I can't really comment.
With this guy he had a point seeing as Barclay was relapsing into his unhealthy behavior from his first appearance on TNG.

Quote:

Admiral Leyton has jerk-like qualities, and his attempt to explain away his actions as being for the greater good are a little worrying.
True but framing Sisko as a Changeling was a pretty jerky thing to do.

Quote:

Commissioner Ferris is another character I don't remember, so can't say either way.
Basically the guy was a bureaucratic asshole who seemed to love pointing out to Kirk that he was technically in charge during the mission, pretty much spend a good chunk of the episode criticizing Kirk, and then tried to make Kirk leave Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Not Rand!, and some other crew members to die.


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