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-   -   Episode of the Week: Hide and Q (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=189856)

Captrek October 2 2012 10:47 AM

Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
Quote:

PICARD: You said you had the realisation of impossible dreams to offer us. When this rescue is completed, I am prepared to listen carefully to whatever proposal you wish to make and subject to it being acceptable
Q: Subject to your foolish human values? Oh, come, Picard. Why do you distrust me so?
PICARD: Why? At our first meeting you seized my vessel. You condemned all humans as savages, and on that charge you tried us in a post-atomic twenty first century court of horrors, where you attacked my people. You again seized my vessel.
Q: And that angered you, did it? Seized my vessel, seized my vessel.
PICARD: You interfered with our Farpoint mission. You threatened to convict us as ignorant savages, if, while dealing with a powerful and complex life forms, we made the slightest mistake, and when that didn't happen
They’re mistreated by a more powerful being, and Picard’s response is to bark at him like an alpha dog? This is the guy Roddenberry wants in charge of first contact?

Quote:

[Planet surface]

(sand and rocks under a green sky with yellow horizon)
I love this set. It reminds me of TOS.

Quote:

[Bridge]

PICARD: Security, this is the Captain. Security? Engineering, this is the Bridge.
(Control panels don't operate. Doors don't open)
PICARD: Turbolift Control, do you read? This is the Captain.
(But answer came there none)
Oh no, it’s Mark of Gideon!

Quote:

TASHA: You've gone too far!
Q: Game penalty!
(Tasha vanishes)
What the fuck was she thinking?

Quote:

TASHA: Well, I, er. It sounds strange, but I'm in a penalty box.
PICARD: A penalty box?
TASHA: Q's penalty box. It sounds strange, but it definitely isn't. I know that one more penalty by anyone and I'm gone.
PICARD: Gone?
TASHA: Yes! I am gone! It is so frustrating to be controlled like this!
PICARD: Lieutenant. Tasha, it's all right.
TASHA: What the hell am I doing? Crying?
No, Denise, you are not crying. What you are doing is delivering one of the worst performances in franchise history.

Granted, lines like this set you up to fail, but still...

Quote:

PICARD: Don't worry. There's a new ship's standing order on the Bridge. When one is in the penalty box, tears are permitted.
TASHA: Captain. Oh, if you weren't a captain.
When one is in the 1960’s, this scene is permitted.

Quote:

(He does a test firing. A rock blows up most satisfactorily)
WORF: Drop your weapons!
RIKER: I'm afraid that was me, Worf. I was checking to see if the phasers still operate.
LAFORGE: Incredible, Worf! You came out of nowhere.
WORF: A warrior's reaction.
He doesn’t know who or where the sniper is, so he jumps into the field of fire, points his phaser in a random direction, and shouts. A warrior’s reaction.

Quote:

WESLEY: Worf!
(He dashes to Worf)
RIKER: Look out!
PICARD: Wesley, no!
(Wesley gets bayoneted from behind. I confess, I cheered)
What the fuck was he thinking?

The “I cheered” snark is Chrissie’s, not mine.

Quote:

(Wesley is transformed from teenager to hunk)
RIKER: You're ten years older. A man.
LAFORGE: Hey, Wes. Not bad.
...
RIKER: Well, my friend, I know what you want.
(He waves his hand in front of Geordi and takes off the visor)
LAFORGE: (to Tasha) You're as beautiful as I imagined, and more.
How come he can appreciate Wesley’s good looks with his VISOR but needs “normal” vision to appreciate Tasha’s?

Quote:

RIKER: Proud warrior Worf, without a single tie to his own kind.
(A Klingon woman is kneeling at his feet. She gets up, tries to swipe at Tasha, and gets knocked down by Worf)
WORF: No! She is from a world now alien to me!
LAFORGE: Worf, is this your idea of sex?
WORF: This is sex. But I have no place for it in my life now.
He demonstrates his power by giving his friend a sex slave? Is this the 24th century or the 4th?

sadsquid October 2 2012 01:07 PM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
A fairly good episode as far as Season 1 goes, but definitely one of the worst Q episodes. John de Lancie was great as always and the scenes on the planet and Q's banter with Picard were fun.

Denise Crosby... well, you summed it up well I think. One of the worst performances, one of the worst scenes and some of the worst lines in the franchise. It was so cringe-worthy that I couldn't help but laugh.

Lt. Yar aside though, I enjoy every Q episode and this was a decent enough episode.

3/5 stars

Trek Survivor October 2 2012 01:18 PM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
One of the worst episodes of season 1. That "alien planet" set was just dreadful - they'd already made much better use of the sound stage ("The Last Outpost") so this was just unforgivable. Some truly awful dialogue as well - as I recall, Roddenberry rewrote Hurley's script so much he used a pen name in protest!

SchwEnt October 2 2012 01:24 PM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
You forgot one...

Worf (speaking about Q's soldiers) calls them "vicious animal things".

In a galaxy with Tellarites and Selay and Anticans and Klingons and Gorn and Andorians, Worf is talking about "animal things"? Cuz that's what they looked like? Compared to what? Look in a mirror, Worf.

Jeyl October 2 2012 02:18 PM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
Riker: I could have saved that girl.
Picard: You were right not to try.


I bet any parent who had to suffer the tragedy of losing their child would agree with Picard 100% on this. Picard has demonstrated a profound understanding of how important a child can mean to a parent.

Picard: I'm not a family man, Riker. And yet, Starfleet has given me a ship with children aboard. I don't feel comfortable with children.

Did I say understanding? Let me rephrase that. I mean complete and utter loathing. You know humanity is not headed for a bright and promising future when the man chosen to make contact with new alien life forms openly says he hates children and still has the gall to say things like how humanity will one day be compared to angels and gods. That scene in question where Picard tells Q that he believes this is where humanity is headed is just gut wrenchingly bad. Far worse than the Tasha "penalty box" ordeal. I NEVER interpret Q hastily vanishing after throwing the book at Picard because he knows Picard is right, but because Picard is being such an insufferable cardboard that to hear any more of what he has to say would almost make me want to shove Picard into an airlock myself.

Picard: We've grown out of our infancy.

And this isn't even the first situation where the crew bring a dead person back to life. And why shouldn't they? There are some real life situations where patients actually enter a state of death while they're being treated on, and doctors were still able to revive them with the tools they had. Beverly Crusher did this just a few episodes ago!

Beverly: I am a physician and watched her die. If you doubt the nature of this poison, why don't you try it on yourself?

So why is it that we can bring some people back from the dead in certain cases, but we mustn't bring them back in others? Why is Yareena, a greedy selfish person who wanted to kill Tasha Yar in front of a live audience more worthy of being brought back to life than a young innocent child?

BillJ October 2 2012 05:41 PM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
Quote:

captrek wrote: (Post 7043737)

He demonstrates his power by giving his friend a sex slave? Is this the 24th century or the 4th?

And he's worked with Worf for six months and knows that Klingon and Human values are different. I just don't see the rub here.

Another one I've always loved. Like a lot of season one, it explored big ideas.

Jeyl October 2 2012 06:43 PM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 7045117)
Another one I've always loved. Like a lot of season one, it explored big ideas.

What exactly was the big idea being explored here? Having god like powers is wrong? Well, what was wrong with it? All anyone ever says about it is that power corrupts, but no one talks about what possible damage it could inflict. To make this "big idea" ploy even more narrow minded, no one talks about or even considers the possibility of letting Riker keep his powers and using it in a responsible way. And to finally add the "stupid" factor into this big idea, Picard talks about how he believes humanity will one day become like angels and gods.

ANGELS AND GODS

Why? If he honestly believes Riker doesn't deserve these god like powers for no reason other than "power corrupts", than why does he believe we'll one day have powers of gods? He says to the absolute degree that power corrupts, so by that logic humanity shouldn't be allowed to become like gods. Maybe he was implying that humanity doesn't have the wisdom to deal with godlike powers? I doubt it since that doesn't explain Q, Trelane or all those other species that have god like powers that are childish, arrogant, pompous and selfish. If he honestly thinks that humanity doesn't have the wisdom From this episode's perspective, humanity already has the knowledge and wisdom to be more careful with god like powers than Q does.

BillJ October 2 2012 07:27 PM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
Quote:

Jeyl wrote: (Post 7045459)
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 7045117)
Another one I've always loved. Like a lot of season one, it explored big ideas.

What exactly was the big idea being explored here? Having god like powers is wrong? Well, what was wrong with it? All anyone ever says about it is that power corrupts, but no one talks about what possible damage it could inflict. To make this "big idea" ploy even more narrow minded, no one talks about or even considers the possibility of letting Riker keep his powers and using it in a responsible way. And to finally add the "stupid" factor into this big idea, Picard talks about how he believes humanity will one day become like angels and gods.

ANGELS AND GODS

Why? If he honestly believes Riker doesn't deserve these god like powers for no reason other than "power corrupts", than why does he believe we'll one day have powers of gods? He says to the absolute degree that power corrupts, so by that logic humanity shouldn't be allowed to become like gods. Maybe he was implying that humanity doesn't have the wisdom to deal with godlike powers? I doubt it since that doesn't explain Q, Trelane or all those other species that have god like powers that are childish, arrogant, pompous and selfish. If he honestly thinks that humanity doesn't have the wisdom From this episode's perspective, humanity already has the knowledge and wisdom to be more careful with god like powers than Q does.

If you really need to ask these questions, I'm pretty sure you've missed the entire point of Star Trek. :rolleyes:

LOKAI of CHERON October 2 2012 07:33 PM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
Fantastic episode. As already stated, a marvellous TOS-like aesthetic to the planet set, and indeed, the episode as a whole. :techman:

As always, de Lancie is brilliant in his portryal of Q, and for me, Denise Crosby's performance was perfectly fine.

Jeyl October 3 2012 03:00 AM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 7045633)
If you really need to ask these questions, I'm pretty sure you've missed the entire point of Star Trek. :rolleyes:

I believe that if we fully accepted the point of Star Trek according to season one of TNG, we wouldn't own the VHS, DVDs, BluRays or for that matter, ANYTHING Star Trek related. The need for possessions according to Captain Picard is looked at as "infantile" that humanity has grown out of.

So if you own any piece of Star Trek memorabilia, episodes or movies in any medium, you are missing the point. Me? I'm just going to call the whole "message of Star Trek" according to Gene Roddenberry a bunch of crap. I mean, Gene was no "perfect" being himself in his dealings with the folks who made the show. He even ripped off Alexander Courage by taking half his royalties every time the theme for Star Trek is used. So by your standards, Gene himself missed the entire point of Star Trek.

Captrek October 3 2012 03:16 AM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
Quote:

Jeyl wrote: (Post 7047715)
Gene was no "perfect" being

Oh crap, now we're going to have Trekkies protesting at American embassies.

There is no TV but Star Trek and Roddenberry gets the Profit. If ye are in doubt, produce a franchise like it.

inflatabledalek October 3 2012 08:06 AM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
It's certainly not the worst Q episodes (because unlike some of the later ones it certainly never dull) but it certainly is the... oddest.

As others have said the planet set doesn't even look as good as reuses of it elsewhere in the same season, let alone compared to... well pretty much any depiction of any alien planet you've ever seen.

After a fun début in the pilot, De Lance is very off here, seeming more like the campiest camp queen of camp space than he ever will again. And considering how camp he can seem normally that's a hell of an achievement. With some ofother off moments from the regulars (including the scene that could almost be the exact moment Crosby decided to start getting on at her agent for other work. Any other work) couple with the poor planet realisation I think the director has to shoulder a lot of the blame for what doesn't work here through seeming to not give a fuck.

Considering what he did with a mediocre script last week, it's enough to make you wish they'd chained Rob Bowman to the camera and forced him to direct the entire season.

Though the script does have to shoulder its fair share of the blame as well. The moral dilema with the child just doesn't work, because it never feels like a situation where using the power would be wrong.

If it had been someone who'd been dead for days, or thousands of people, the issue would be a lot muddier and it'd be easier for Picard to make his point about that being too much power.

But saving one person who has just died... that's something almost everyday for this crew. The ending of Code of Honor depended on it and Crusher will try her best to do it with Yar at the end of the season without Picard stepping forward and telling her off for her troubles.

It also gets confusing that not saving the girl is supposed to be the right choice on Riker's part but it still seemingly the catalyst for him turning into a mild arsehole at the end of the show. So letting her die didn't really make any difference at all. Yay for small needless small child fatalities.

The only really good bit of the show was Geordi's line to Tasha, where he basically just uses it as an excuse to hit on her and thus winds up feeling like the most human person in the whole show.

Timo October 3 2012 09:59 AM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
I don't really see the point of not yanking Superman's cape. I mean, this plenipotent being is clearly unstable by human standards: no amount of placation would assuredly keep him from turning the heroes into frogs, and no amount of spitting at him would assuredly make him worse than he already is.

It's like saying that Picard did badly by flunking the 20 questions thing in "All Good Things...". There's no advantage to following the rules of Q, and our heroes would know that much in this early episode already.

Timo Saloniemi

CorporalCaptain October 3 2012 11:34 AM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
Quote:

SchwEnt wrote: (Post 7044172)
"vicious animal things"

The catchphrase that sums up the inanity of the whole episode. In my circle of friends, it was our "name" of the episode.

Jeyl October 3 2012 12:16 PM

Re: Episode of the Week: Hide and Q
 
Quote:

captrek wrote: (Post 7047796)
There is no TV but Star Trek and Roddenberry gets the Profit. If ye are in doubt, produce a franchise like it.

This isn't about earning a profit form something you created, this is about ripping off actual talent who are just trying to make an honest living. Creating a franchise and ripping someone off are two different things.


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