The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Deep Space Nine (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40)
-   -   Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=189814)

Mr_Homn October 1 2012 11:17 PM

Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
I'm really enjoying my run through of Deep Space Nine, but every once and a while, something happens that really bugs me.

This is one of those times. Sons of Mogh is one of the worst episodes of the series. What makes it even more annoying, is that the episode is pretty good up until the resolution. But the ending was so horrible and disgusting that it totally devalued the rest of the episode. That was the biggest cop out I've ever seen in this show. Not only that, but it was totally character assassination for Doctor Bashir. No honorable and good doctor would EVER erase someone's memory without their consent, and the fact that this was Worf's idea made him seem very dishonorable. Not only that, but Miss "I respect and love klingon culture" Jadzia Dax seems very anti-klingon culture in this episode. She talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk.

I read that Ron Moore said that "it wasn't hard to imagine Worf coming to Bashir and explaining the situation, and Bashir saying 'okay well that's your culture'"... Moore said that he just wasn't interested in writing that. I don't buy it. I can't imagine Bashir saying that, and it's NOT klingon culture to dishonorably erase your brothers memory. I think Moore just didn't know what to do here.

This episode pissed me off. It especially pissed me off because Tony Todd as Kurn was always extremely entertaining, and they basically threw his character away for no good reason in this episode. At LEAST have him die honorably in combat, with a satisfied look on his face. But no, instead, as a result of an extremely non-klingon and dishonorable decision by worf, Kurn is reduced to an empty shell at the end.

Also some cringe inducing Worf/Dax flirtation. I'd accuse the DS9 writers of ignoring the previously established "Rough klingon" style of romance that appeals to worf (we see this with kheylar[sp]), but the TNG writers already did that when they paired him up with Troi, so I give the ds9 writers a pass here. They were just following the pattern that TNG set.

I'm going to pretend this never happened, and move on. Ds9 is a great show, but they really screw the pooch occasionally. (Yes, so did TOS and TNG, but this one really annoyed me because it ruined a great character, and made me lose respect for Ds9worf and bashir)

{ Emilia } October 2 2012 12:05 AM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
For what it's worth I completely agree with you. I think there are three episodes that annoy me like that:

- Sons of Mogh for the reasons you mentioned.

- Hard Time: Being in some sort of mind prison for decades is going to alter your personality and leave psychological scars. They dealt with that way too casually.

- In the pale moonlight: Didn't agree with what Sisko did, didn't agree with him getting away with it with no further consequences, didn't agree with his "I'd do it again" at the end of the episode.

Trek Survivor October 2 2012 01:32 PM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
Yeah, Kurn should've died saving Worf's life or something. Give him a 'happy' (in Klingon terms!) ending.

Bashir's casual memory wipe and everyone going along with it is terrible.

R. Star October 2 2012 01:38 PM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
I dunno, for me I thought it made a lot of sense from Worf's point of view. It really hit home Kurn's point about how domesticated Worf had become and how he had really accepted human morality along with his Klingon beliefs and the two conflicted inside of him.

It's not like we haven't seen Starfleet people erase people's memories with or without consent before in any other series. Either way Kurn dying in this episode would have been predictable and bland. It's what I liked about DS9, they were willing to shake things up and take chances. It couldn't always turn out great, but it showed they were trying.

pimp October 2 2012 02:22 PM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
for me it is an ok episode. Yes the ending is weird where they basically brain wash him. But I have always like Tony Todd's acting and voice.

Jono October 2 2012 02:49 PM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
I have some issues with the ending, but I do like that they tried to do something other than the clichéd "honourable death" for Kurn.

I did think we would see Kurn come back...I also thought that about Tom Riker as well.

mupps October 2 2012 11:38 PM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
Hadn't we seen Worf act un-Klingon like in already in "Birthright". Where after finding the survivors of the Khitomer massacre Worf straight out tells the leading elder Klingon that he would not have killed his father if he had been amongst the survivors but would have embraced him...
The other Kilingon was almost disgusted by that and hoped his own son would have killed him.

Unicron October 2 2012 11:47 PM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
Quote:

Zombie Redshirt wrote: (Post 7044193)
I dunno, for me I thought it made a lot of sense from Worf's point of view. It really hit home Kurn's point about how domesticated Worf had become and how he had really accepted human morality along with his Klingon beliefs and the two conflicted inside of him.

It's not like we haven't seen Starfleet people erase people's memories with or without consent before in any other series. Either way Kurn dying in this episode would have been predictable and bland. It's what I liked about DS9, they were willing to shake things up and take chances. It couldn't always turn out great, but it showed they were trying.

I tend to agree. I think one of the main points in the episode is how important the concept of culture is to a person, and Worf having to face the fact that despite all his attempts to be a real Klingon, in many respects he isn't one. He still values Klingon culture, but he was raised by the Federation. And the Feds don't typically put one's sense of honor or family above the individual in the ways that Klingon society emphasizes.

FWIW, the script also has some unused dialogue for some of the scenes, like when Dax apologizes to Worf. I sometimes wish they'd leave more of those lines in.

Anwar October 3 2012 12:06 AM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
The worst part is that a Year later Worf got his Honor back and he never spared a thought for what he'd done to Kurn.

Jimi_James October 3 2012 12:24 AM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
Yeah, they seemed to completely forget about Kurn later on once Worf had gotten his honor back, which I suppose could be argued that it would have been cruel to try and disrupt his new life, if he could have even have his memories restored. But even if he couldn't, they should have at least mentioned Kurn in some regard or even found a way to work him in...not Kurn specifically but the new person he was, so that Worf had to deal with it...perhaps showing up some time during the war in some respect...it would have been nice to see Tony Todd again. He was one of my favorite DS9 character actors and did not only a great job as Kurn but as old Jake to.

Worf'sParmach October 3 2012 02:28 AM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
I pretty much agree with everything the OP said abou this episode. Good premise, horrible ending

e
Quote:

Jon-o'-lantern wrote: (Post 7044472)
I did think we would see Kurn come back...I also thought that about Tom Riker as well.

I thought the same thing. I just knew we'd see Kurn again especially with what we know about Klingon physiology being redundant and self healing.

Quote:

Anwar wrote: (Post 7046953)
The worst part is that a Year later Worf got his Honor back and he never spared a thought for what he'd done to Kurn.

This bugged me as well. I'm wondering if there were some issues with getting tony Todd back.

I wonder what Martok would have said about what Worf did to Kurn...

Admiral_Sisko October 3 2012 02:41 AM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
Quote:

Worf'sParmach wrote: (Post 7047538)
I wonder what Martok would have said about what Worf did to Kurn...

Given that Worf never told Martok about Alexander, it's possible he never mentioned Kurn, either.

R. Star October 3 2012 02:52 AM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
^

Possible? I'd say dang likely. Worf's not exactly a chatty person even to the select few people he does like.

How cool would it have been though if Kurn was around regularly(like Martok, Damar, etc) as a security officer?

Worf'sParmach October 3 2012 04:27 AM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
There's no way Worf would have told Martok about Kurn. But Martok finding out some other way would have been interesting.

Worf'sParmach October 3 2012 04:28 AM

Re: Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending
 
Quote:

Zombie Redshirt wrote: (Post 7047643)

How cool would it have been though if Kurn was around regularly(like Martok, Damar, etc) as a security officer?

I wonder if Jadzia would have liked Kurn better ...


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.