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-   -   Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=189013)

Knight Templar September 23 2012 07:08 PM

Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
I remember when "Generations" came out, reviewers praised the saucer crash as being one of the shows great moments and a special effects triumph.

I was rewatching it the other day and seeing it now it seems horrendously long and tedious. A lot like the infamous "disaster" flicks from the 1970s that dwells forever on things breaking, people falling, and sparks flying.

Anyone else feelt this way?

wahwahkits September 23 2012 08:00 PM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
No I think it was very well done. I think they spent just the right time on it, if they'd spent just a tiny amount of time on it I think it would have dis-respected what was a beautiful ship and a very important piece of the TV series.

Andymator September 23 2012 10:39 PM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
Nah, I thought it was great!

FalTorPan September 23 2012 10:52 PM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
I think it was well done. It was probably difficult to "sell" the effect, since the saucer in sunlight looks much different than it does in space, and the saucer is so enormous that there's no easy way to convey its size relative to the landscape. (The windows don't do it for me, since most are elongated due to the slope of the saucer's top and bottom.)

Galileo7 September 23 2012 10:54 PM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
I did not want to see the 1701-D destroyed, but the 'saucer crash' was done well.

jayrath September 24 2012 12:33 AM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
I think it was the best possible job, pre-CGI. And I hate CGI.

R. Star September 24 2012 01:11 AM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
Three things come to mind about this scene.

1) Troi actively had to aim the saucer section toward the planet if the force of the drive section's explosion is what pushes them into the atmosphere. Space is big and she could have gone any other direction.

2) The windows break. These things are stated to be made of transparent aluminium and are supposed to stand up against the rigors of space travel and combat. But they break when the ship crashes? Lack of thinking things through.

3) The evacuation. Do they go through that dramatic sequence every time they seperate? I thought they whole point of the saucer seperation was to keep the families out of harm's way. Why the hell are the families even IN the drive section?

These are all just writing faults more than anything else. That was really the problem with Generations as a whole. Poor writing. The effects, while not terribly inspiring, where alright.

sonak September 24 2012 01:26 AM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
I think it was awesome. One of the coolest parts of the movie.

Marc September 24 2012 01:44 AM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7005028)
Three things come to mind about this scene.

1) Troi actively had to aim the saucer section toward the planet if the force of the drive section's explosion is what pushes them into the atmosphere. Space is big and she could have gone any other direction.

little bit of nudge, systems not responding and suddenly you're heading dirtside.

Quote:

2) The windows break. These things are stated to be made of transparent aluminium and are supposed to stand up against the rigors of space travel and combat. But they break when the ship crashes? Lack of thinking things through.
Not really - the spaceframe is designed for a zero-g environment and is re-enforced by SIF and aided by interial dampners. It's on a planet, experiencing gravity for the first time, SIF failing and things aren't going to stand up too well.

Quote:

3) The evacuation. Do they go through that dramatic sequence every time they seperate? I thought they whole point of the saucer seperation was to keep the families out of harm's way. Why the hell are the families even IN the drive section?
it keeps them safe after the saucer has seperated from the stardrive. Gotta get them first. Go back to through the eps where saucer seperates (EaF, BOBW, Arsenal of Fredom) and they usually had ot shift people around. Only in this instance they had to evacuate everyone to the saucer where as normally there would have those who remaind behind (e.g engineering personel).

Quote:

These are all just writing faults more than anything else. That was really the problem with Generations as a whole. Poor writing. The effects, while not terribly inspiring, where alright.
sorry - while there was sloppy writing, I think your points are more nitpicking/wrong than writting.

R. Star September 24 2012 06:35 AM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
^
In response:

1) Space is three dimensional. The ONLY way the explosion of the drive section could knock the saucer into the planet's atmosphere is if it was positioned between the drive and the planet. The drive section was parallel to the planet when they started the evacuation. So basically Troi had to specifically turn the ship TOWARD the planet. That's not just a "nudge" in the wrong direction.

2) Yes, really. Those windows are expected to survive weapon blasts, crashes and other such trauma in space. Then they break when there's a crash scene? There's no reason for that but lack of continuity and that someone on the set thought it would be "cool."

3) Yes, the did have to evacuate the crew. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the civilians. There were tons of them being moved in that scene, especially that little dramatic scene of the girl dropping her bear. The whole point of a separable ship is to keep the civilians safe in crisis situations. That means they should all be in the saucer. But evacuating the crew wouldn't be "dramatic" so yeah.

Certainly these aren't the three biggest flaws in the movie, but they are relevant to this scene which is what the thread is about. Even something simple as this scene they made obvious mistakes.

Bry_Sinclair September 24 2012 07:06 AM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
Looking back on it now, the actual crash does look pretty dated. But it is still well done, given when it was made, etc.

One thing about the evacuation that has always puzzled me: why was Sickbay evacuated?

Sickbay was on deck twelve of the Saucer Section, close to the centre of the deck to afford it as much protection as possible. No medical facility was ever established as being in the Drive Section, though it would make sense when the ship was separated, so as to treat casualties during a combat situation--but why would Beverly be there instead of the main facility?

Dream September 24 2012 07:15 AM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7006318)
So basically Troi had to specifically turn the ship TOWARD the planet. That's not just a "nudge" in the wrong direction.

That scene always bugged me. Why did Riker ask Troi and not a nameless redshirt to take the helm? Was this a lame women are bad drivers joke?

They did it again for Nemesis too!

teacake September 24 2012 07:37 AM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
I adore the saucer crash. It actually looks like a horrible terrifying crash from the inside rather than just people throwing themselves about the bridge.

R. Star September 24 2012 08:43 AM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
Quote:

Dream wrote: (Post 7006429)
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7006318)
So basically Troi had to specifically turn the ship TOWARD the planet. That's not just a "nudge" in the wrong direction.

That scene always bugged me. Why did Riker ask Troi and not a nameless redshirt to take the helm? Was this a lame women are bad drivers joke?

They did it again for Nemesis too!

Yeah, who would think your therapist would make a good pilot? That really was Riker's poor call there. Though in Nemesis you could argue that Picard had already decided to ram Shinzon's ship when he told Troi to take the helm. Who would be better to crash the ship? :p

Tiberius September 24 2012 10:59 AM

Re: Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 7006318)
1) Space is three dimensional. The ONLY way the explosion of the drive section could knock the saucer into the planet's atmosphere is if it was positioned between the drive and the planet. The drive section was parallel to the planet when they started the evacuation. So basically Troi had to specifically turn the ship TOWARD the planet. That's not just a "nudge" in the wrong direction.

Not really. She would have tried to get the saucer out away from everything as quickly as possible, but once the explosion happened, the saucer could have been caught in the planet's gravity. It's not like the planet doesn't pull on you if you are in orbit...

Quote:

2) Yes, really. Those windows are expected to survive weapon blasts, crashes and other such trauma in space. Then they break when there's a crash scene? There's no reason for that but lack of continuity and that someone on the set thought it would be "cool."
Maybe, but bear in mind that the hull of the saucer was taking the weight of the entire saucer. I don't think there's any part where the saucer had needed to take stresses like that before. And metal will shatter if you stress it the right way.

Quote:

3) Yes, the did have to evacuate the crew. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the civilians. There were tons of them being moved in that scene, especially that little dramatic scene of the girl dropping her bear. The whole point of a separable ship is to keep the civilians safe in crisis situations. That means they should all be in the saucer. But evacuating the crew wouldn't be "dramatic" so yeah.
Well, they might have been in a classroom in the neck or something...


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