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-   -   Gaping Hole of Troiyus (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=187382)

Captain Shatner September 6 2012 10:37 PM

Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
Apart from the weirdness of naming your leader "The Dolmen", there's quite a bigger problem with Elaan of Troiyus. In fact, this problem can in fact be applied to quite a number of Trek episodes. Here it is...

WHY CAN'T THE CREW USE THE REPLICATOR TO MAKE DILITHIUM CRYSTALS???

It appears that the replicator works on the same basis as the transporter, storing "pattern buffers" of different objects to reproduce different objects, mainly food. But you'd think that some enterprising (pun intended!) Starfleet engineer would figure out that you could store other patterns buffers, mainly, dilithium crystals, in the replicator Then you could conjure them up at will...instead of taking them off of a Dolmen's neck....

Harvey September 6 2012 10:48 PM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
The crew of the original Enterprise didn't have replicators.

T'Girl September 7 2012 12:23 AM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
Even in the 24th century I don't think replicators can make dilithium crystals.

:)

Rulius September 7 2012 02:29 AM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
No by the time of the TNG they recrystallize it in the chamber.

nightwind1 September 7 2012 05:03 AM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
Quote:

Captain Shatner wrote: (Post 6921140)
Apart from the weirdness of naming your leader "The Dolmen", there's quite a bigger problem with Elaan of Troiyus. In fact, this problem can in fact be applied to quite a number of Trek episodes. Here it is...

WHY CAN'T THE CREW USE THE REPLICATOR TO MAKE DILITHIUM CRYSTALS???

It appears that the replicator works on the same basis as the transporter, storing "pattern buffers" of different objects to reproduce different objects, mainly food. But you'd think that some enterprising (pun intended!) Starfleet engineer would figure out that you could store other patterns buffers, mainly, dilithium crystals, in the replicator Then you could conjure them up at will...instead of taking them off of a Dolmen's neck....

"Fascinating..."
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...sm/squire3.png
"...What are these 'replicators' of which you speak?"

Wingsley September 7 2012 05:25 AM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
Judging by the bizarre nature of replication that took place due to Transporter malfunction in "The Enemy Witihin", it seems highly unlikely a Federation starship can just snap its fingers and "replicate" whatever it wants to perfection. OTOH, in "Catspaw" Korob and Silvia try to tempt Kirk's landing party with plates filled with gemstones, only for Kirk to claim "We could manufacture a ton of these on our ship. They mean nothing to us."

So it wasn't really clear how food, other supplies and spare parts are manufactured aboard space vessels. Did 23rd-century space vessels use replicators or something bulkier and more primitive? You could argue the food dispensers (like the one Kyle used to serve the Air Force security guard in "Tomorrow is Yesterday") were replicators, but there are people who say that TOS had no such technology. Even if the TOS era can be said to exhibit such abilities, it could be readily assumed that supposed replicators of that era would be much more limited than their TNG counterparts.

Indysolo September 7 2012 06:07 AM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
Stop talking about Elaan's gaping hole!

Neil

Maurice September 7 2012 08:34 AM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
And now let's see if the OP ever acknowledges their error.

GSchnitzer September 7 2012 02:26 PM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
There was this interchange with Korob in the episode "Catspaw:"

MCCOY: These look real [regarding the plate full of gemstones].
KOROB: They are, I assure you. Diamonds, rubies, emeralds, sapphires. All the crystalline forms that you cherish above all things. A fortune of them for each of you--if you leave here without further inquiry.
KIRK: We could manufacture a ton of these on our ship. They mean nothing to us.

So, while they are capable of manufacturing diamonds, rubies, emeralds, sapphires--all the crystalline forms that are cherished above all things, evidently (and perplexingly) dilithium is something that can't be manufactured shipboard.

Timo September 7 2012 02:38 PM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
McCoy seems to honestly believe in a distinction between "real" and "unreal" rubies... And it doesn't seem as if he's pondering whether these things are figments of his imagination.

Does this mean that there still is value in "genuine" gemstones? Well, Kirk certainly seems to think so, when discovering the diamonds in "Arena"! Plus, "gem" is still synonymous with "valuable" for him in a certain episode with a suggestive title.

Why he would say otherwise in this episode is pretty obvious, too. He doesn't just want to indicate that he can't be bought - he wants to thoroughly humiliate his enemies for even suggesting such a thing. A little lie won't hurt him, but hopefully will hurt Korob.

Timo Saloniemi

Doug Otte September 7 2012 03:21 PM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
I've been nitpicking all over the webz today cos I'm cranky, so let me just contribute:

1) It's "Troyius" not "Troiyus";
2) Dohlman is a title, not a name.

T'Girl September 7 2012 06:35 PM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
Quote:

GSchnitzer wrote: (Post 6924380)
So, while they are capable of manufacturing diamonds, rubies, emeralds, sapphires--all the crystalline forms that are cherished above all things, evidently (and perplexingly) dilithium is something that can't be manufactured shipboard.

We can manufacture synthetic diamonds today, so it no big surpries that the machinery aboard the Enteprise can do the same. They're spectroscopically different than diamonds that come out of the ground (light passes through them differently), and there is debate as too whether they are real.
Quote:

perplexingly
I'm not sure where I got this, but supposedly dilithium is chemically the same as quartz and if you attempt to fabricate (or replicate) a synthetic dilithium crystal, all you'll get is a piece of quartz. Likely non-canon.
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 6924428)
Does this mean that there still is value in "genuine" gemstones? Well, Kirk certainly seems to think so, when discovering the diamonds in "Arena"!

The diamonds and other gems that Korob creates with a wave of his wand, and the ones manufactured aboard the Enterprise are "meaningless." Yet the diamonds Kirk discovers on the Arena planets are; An incredible fortune in stones.. Natural are valuable, and manufactured are not. ...

Wingsley September 7 2012 09:46 PM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
Probably much larger and more obvious plot hols would be (1: how the Engine Room was left unmanned so Kryton could sabotage the ship's dilithium, and (2: who the Enterprise didn't carry some spare dilithium crystals as replacements in case of sabotage or breakdown.

Timo September 7 2012 09:52 PM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
Lack of dilithium spares is good continuity. Apparently, the stuff is really rare and expensive - and Kirk consumes those crystals in several episodes, quite possibly running out of spares in the process.

FWIW, the last time Kirk was crippled by dilithium shortage, in "Mudd's Women", he had spent the previous episodes at the very edge of the known, in "Where No Man" and "Corbomite Maneuver" by production order (or just "Where No Man" by stardate order), having had no chance to visit a starbase, and was quite plausibly short on supplies. The episode preceding "Elaan of Troyius" in turn was "Immunity Syndrome" where the ship almost completely drained of energy. While the episode did end with our heroes sailing toward the safety of a starbase, "Elaan" opens with the remark that the mission is top secret, and may have diverted our heroes from their intended shore leave.

Timo Saloniemi

Captain Shatner September 8 2012 06:57 PM

Re: Gaping Hole of Troiyus
 
Several people have pointed out that "replicators" did not exist in TOS. "Food synthesizer," if you will.
Which really doesn't explain:

A) Surely a "food synthesizer" can make more than food...

B) Even if it couldn't, the dilithium pattern buffer could be stored on the transporter, and then Scotty could beam up a rock from a planet's surface. Since the matter is converted into energy and then reconverted back into matter, why not reconvert the rock into dilithium?


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