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-   -   Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=187031)

Hando September 3 2012 02:38 PM

Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
Using the examples of the VOY episode "Living Witness" and the NF comic "Double Time", is it possible that the Federation no longer exist in the future?

In "Living Witness", or at least those parts set in the future - in the 31st and ?33rd century - we see a planet in the Delta Quadrant that had no contact with the Federation since Voyager left. The lack of any Federation presence seem a bit strange to me given the current novelverse and possibly also Online. [I agree that it could be explained away by setting the future parts into the pre-"Future's End" timeline: Voyager and Earth destroyed in the 26th century...]

In "Double Time", there is an encounter with a ship belonging to the Enevian Empire in the 39th century. And this empire seem to have good chances at conquering the galaxy, which would be strange if the Federation still stood. [Although it could just said that they are just a "new" faction in the Temporal Cold War.]

I am open to any ideas or suggestions.

The Wormhole September 3 2012 02:46 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
Personally, I always assumed Mr Daniels on Enterprise was with the Federation, but others seem to think he wasn't. As proof, they claim he never spoke of the Federation in the present tense and he spoke of a Federation monument, which supposedly means it must be a thing of the past.

Regardless, I maintain that it does exist in the 31st century. As for why the planet in Living Witness had no contact with them, maybe the Prime Directive has been re-written and that planet does not fit the new criteria for making contact?

Neutral Zone September 3 2012 04:00 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
The Federation would/still exist in the 31st Century onwards as there been no evidence for its collapse as of yet.

Hartzilla2007 September 3 2012 05:04 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
Quote:

The Wormhole wrote: (Post 6904349)
As for why the planet in Living Witness had no contact with them, maybe the Prime Directive has been re-written and that planet does not fit the new criteria for making contact?

That or the Federation heard about their rather interesting view of Voyager and decided it would be best not to contact them just yet.

Count Zero September 3 2012 05:29 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
Or maybe they have an agreement with whatever power claims that part of the galaxy not to go there.

As for Daniels, I can't think of any indication on his part that the Federation doesn't exist anymore. Didn't he even say it would fight the Spherebuilders together with the Xindi when he and Archer were on that future Enterprise? (I can't remember what time that was supposed to be, though.) There are plenty of monuments to things that still exist so that isn't proof of anything. Obviously, the Federation of Daniel's time would have evolved and changed from that of Archer's time so that he might think of the latter as a thing of the past, just as I would about the older incarnations of the European Union.

REDrake September 3 2012 06:36 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
The battle of Procyon V supposedly took place 700 years in the future from Archer's time. That would place it around 29th Century. At that point Klingons were also part of the Federation. It's quite possible that from that war, which spawned across the entire galaxy, a new political body emerged.

Count Zero September 3 2012 06:40 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
Thanks for clarifying that, REDrake. :)

ixfd64 September 3 2012 07:02 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
The Memory Alpha page doesn't say a whole lot, but there's nothing to suggest that the Federation no longer exists.

On the subject of which, it'd be really cool to have a Star Trek series that takes place in the 4th millenium!

REDrake September 3 2012 07:24 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
Quote:

ixfd64 wrote: (Post 6905192)
On the subject of which, it'd be really cool to have a Star Trek series that takes place in the 4th millenium!

Not much exploring left to do at that point. That must be why races were so dedicated to time travel. :lol:

Count Zero September 3 2012 07:32 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
It could be about finally making the jump to other galaxies. However, by that point, social mores would probably be very different from ours so it would either be hard for the audience to relate to any of the characters or the characters would be a anachronistic - basically being us in a futuristic setting.

F. King Daniel September 3 2012 07:59 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
Quote:

REDrake wrote: (Post 6905111)
The battle of Procyon V supposedly took place 700 years in the future from Archer's time. That would place it around 29th Century. At that point Klingons were also part of the Federation. It's quite possible that from that war, which spawned across the entire galaxy, a new political body emerged.

The Battle of Procyon V was in the 26th century, and no, that was an alternate future which won't come about. The Enterprise destroyed the sphere network, and the Delphic Expanse, in 2153. Thus the 26th century of prime-Trek will have no Expanse, no Sphere Builders, and no war.

REDrake September 3 2012 08:06 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 6905444)
Quote:

REDrake wrote: (Post 6905111)
The battle of Procyon V supposedly took place 700 years in the future from Archer's time. That would place it around 29th Century. At that point Klingons were also part of the Federation. It's quite possible that from that war, which spawned across the entire galaxy, a new political body emerged.

The Battle of Procyon V was in the 26th century, and no, that was an alternate future which won't come about. The Enterprise destroyed the sphere network, and the Delphic Expanse, in 2153. Thus the 26th century of prime-Trek will have no Expanse, no Sphere Builders, and no war.

Why no war? It is my understanding that Sphere Builders tried to invade the universe but not in the Delphic Expanse. Procyon V is near Andoria, if I'm not mistaken. After being defeated, Sphere Builders tried to alter the future by building the spheres in the Expanse. In other words, Enterprise defeated the second attempt of invasion.

F. King Daniel September 3 2012 08:06 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
Trek I read a really fun article in Best of Trek #2 (published 1977) called "The Fall of the Federation", by Phillip Carpenter, which postulated the Federation splintering and imploding by the year 8000 after the galaxy had been fully explored and tensions arose about how the Federation should treat hostile species. It was written in a style similar to the Encyclopedia Galactica in Asimov's Foundation.

There was mention of extra-galactic colonies, which upon learning of the Federation's fall, were forced to develop their own independent societies. They became lengend in the former Federation worlds in the Milky Way, known as the Missing Settlements.

That story really captured my imagination.

F. King Daniel September 3 2012 08:10 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
Quote:

REDrake wrote: (Post 6905468)
Why no war? It is my understanding that Sphere Builders tried to invade the universe but not in the Delphic Expanse. Procyon V is near Andoria, if I'm not mistaken. After being defeated, Sphere Builders tried to alter the future by building the spheres in the Expanse. In other words, Enterprise defeated the second attempt of invasion.

Daniels said it was the same Expanse Archer's Enterprise was currentlyin , grown 50,000 light years+ by the time of the battle. He also said it was an alternate timeline, a possible future.

R. Star September 3 2012 08:10 PM

Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?
 
Quote:

Neutral Zone wrote: (Post 6904622)
The Federation would/still exist in the 31st Century onwards as there been no evidence for its collapse as of yet.

Negative evidence of it's collapse doesn't prove it's still there, by all accounts there's no conclusive evidence of it being around or having collapsed. This one goes in the unproven column.


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