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-   -   Could there be a Borg King? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=186392)

teacake August 28 2012 02:20 AM

Could there be a Borg King?
 
Is the gender of the central borg important like with bees?They need a coordinating leader for the hive but I don't see why that leader needs to be female. Even if the female hormones were amping something up plenty of assimilated race wouldn't even have the same hormone receptivity.

R. Star August 28 2012 04:50 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
"Gender is irrelevant?"

Actually maybe not. If the Borg Queen can seduce Data, why not a Borg King with abs of steel seducing Janeway and Seven? That's what it would be too. A sexy hot Borg to appeal to the female viewers.

Actaully this thread is predestined to end with a facepalm.

Mr. Laser Beam August 28 2012 04:56 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
In the Mirror Universe, the Borg DID have a King ("The Worst of Both Worlds"). They also travelled in diamond shaped (not cube shaped) ships.

teacake August 28 2012 06:59 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 6871886)
"Gender is irrelevant?"

Actually maybe not. If the Borg Queen can seduce Data, why not a Borg King with abs of steel seducing Janeway and Seven? That's what it would be too. A sexy hot Borg to appeal to the female viewers.

pfft, we don't need a Borg King to seduce Janeway and 7, the Borg Queen does just that just fine.
Quote:


Actaully this thread is predestined to end with a facepalm.
It was a genuine question. We (or at least I) think of the Borg as a hive and their leader as a queen, like hive insects. But I don't think we've seen any reasons for the leader to be a specific gender. I'm just interested in what others think about this.

Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 6871925)
In the Mirror Universe, the Borg DID have a King ("The Worst of Both Worlds"). They also travelled in diamond shaped (not cube shaped) ships.

Now that's interesting!

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Borg_King

I picture the Borg King being like David Bowie in Labyrinth.

Dream August 28 2012 07:57 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
Locutus was the closest thing to that, until the TNG characters decided to ruin it for the Borg by bringing back Picard.

teacake August 28 2012 08:17 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
He would have been the Borg Queen's Hand, to borrow from GoT.

Tiberius August 28 2012 08:22 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 6871409)
Is the gender of the central borg important like with bees?They need a coordinating leader for the hive but I don't see why that leader needs to be female. Even if the female hormones were amping something up plenty of assimilated race wouldn't even have the same hormone receptivity.

The Borg Queen is a mind that is formed from all the drones being connected together, just the way that your mind is formed from all your brain cells connected together.

By itself a brain cell has no gender identity, and neither does a drone.

But when you connect a lot of brain cells together, it forms a mind that DOES have a gender identity.

Likewise, the mind formed from all the drones connected together, has a gender identity, and it is female. The Borg Queen. There is no Borg King because there are no drones available to form another mind. All the drones available are being used as part of the Queen's mind.

And we know it's a female mind because every single time it's chosen to use a body to represent itself (controlling it like a puppet), it has chosen a female body.

(That's how the Queen keeps surviving - the body may be destroyed, but the mind is safely spread across the entire Collective.)

spot_loves_data August 28 2012 09:01 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 6872273)
We (or at least I) think of the Borg as a hive and their leader as a queen, like hive insects. But I don't think we've seen any reasons for the leader to be a specific gender.

I read somewhere that the borg were originally meant to look something like insects. In the end, TPTB decided against using so much of the budget for CGI.

If they'd looked more like social insects, a queen would have been mandatory. As the borg are now (humanoid), I don't see any reason to favor one sex over the other.

teacake August 28 2012 09:20 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
Quote:

Tiberius wrote: (Post 6872474)
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 6871409)
Is the gender of the central borg important like with bees?They need a coordinating leader for the hive but I don't see why that leader needs to be female. Even if the female hormones were amping something up plenty of assimilated race wouldn't even have the same hormone receptivity.

The Borg Queen is a mind that is formed from all the drones being connected together, just the way that your mind is formed from all your brain cells connected together.

By itself a brain cell has no gender identity, and neither does a drone.

But when you connect a lot of brain cells together, it forms a mind that DOES have a gender identity.

Likewise, the mind formed from all the drones connected together, has a gender identity, and it is female. The Borg Queen. There is no Borg King because there are no drones available to form another mind. All the drones available are being used as part of the Queen's mind.

I didn't mean a king in addition to a queen, I meant a king instead of a queen.
Quote:

And we know it's a female mind because every single time it's chosen to use a body to represent itself (controlling it like a puppet), it has chosen a female body.
But why is the gender identity always female?

R. Star August 28 2012 09:44 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 6872651)

But why is the gender identity always female?

If you go by the Destiny novels, it's because the being who created the Collective was female.

teacake August 28 2012 10:00 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
Well what's the canon answer?

R. Star August 28 2012 10:18 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 6872759)
Well what's the canon answer?

There is none beyond some holywood execs wanting a "face" for the Borg in the movie.

EmoBorg August 28 2012 11:18 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
According to scientists, the first sex to develop was female. The male gender then developed from the female sex. That is why males have nipples because females are the default sex in nature and the male gender developed from that. The Borg collective has a female leader maybe because it is the default gender.

Females are the first sex/gender according to scientific research. Eve came before Adam in the real world.

Dream August 28 2012 11:25 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 6872795)
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 6872759)
Well what's the canon answer?

There is none beyond some holywood execs wanting a "face" for the Borg in the movie.

The Borg became much less threatening the moment they got a face. They were never as scary as they were in Q Who.

Maurice August 28 2012 11:31 AM

Re: Could there be a Borg King?
 
Quote:

spot_loves_data wrote: (Post 6872582)
I read somewhere that the borg were originally meant to look something like insects. In the end, TPTB decided against using so much of the budget for CGI.

CGI? CGI to create aliens? In 1989? On TV? Not a chance.


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