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Mars August 25 2012 04:28 PM

The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
Spock holds a press conference after the events of the Star XI Trek Movie. Reporters ask him about the destruction of Vulcan. Spock admits it was all his fault and that he and his collegues should never have invented the red matter in the first place. When reporters ask his where he's from, he says he's from the 24th century and gives a specific date, he also describes Nero and his motivation for destroying his planet which was the destruction of the planet Romulus by a nearby supernova, Spock gives the exact date and time and mentions which star explodes. When asked if he is ever going to develop the red matter again, Spock says, Never, it was the worst mistake in his life, that he never should have developed such a lethal weapon of planetary destruction in the first place. This news gets broadcast across the Federation and beyond via subspace radio, part of that beyond is the Romulan Star Empire. What do the leaders of Romulus do?

Shatinator August 25 2012 09:04 PM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
They would assume it was a ploy to conquer them.

RoJoHen August 25 2012 10:03 PM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
I'm trying to figure out if Old Spock would actually divulge this information to save the Romulans or if he would keep it to himself so as not to further pollute the timeline.

Romulus Prime August 26 2012 12:40 AM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
Who says Romulus will be destroyed in this reality? It was already a bit different to begin with, and now the future has certainly been altered via Spock and Nero. Until otherwise stated or depicted on screen, AbramsTrek is a reality where the Romulan Empire reigns supreme from Romulus indefinitely...


:rommie:

Nerys Myk August 26 2012 02:17 AM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
I for one welcome our future Romulan overlords.

King Daniel Into Darkness August 26 2012 12:43 PM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
Quote:

Romulus Prime wrote: (Post 6860075)
Who says Romulus will be destroyed in this reality? It was already a bit different to begin with,

Only in as much as giving Trek a much needed visual upgrade. In-universe, it's the same.

I think it's a given that with 129 years forwarning, Romulus will be saved this time.

Mars August 26 2012 06:29 PM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
A star exploding is a pretty hard thing to stop, it occurs because the star runs out of fuel, Nothing anyone has done so far in this new timeline will stop that star from exploding, and Spock has very good reason not to reinvent red matter after it has destroyed his homeworld. The Romulans might try to invent the stuff, but they also have about a century before that star explodes and destroys their homeworld if they don't succeed, and many Romulans won't want to take the chance of being on Romulus when it explodes. Romulans are fairly long lived being related to vulcans, many are going to try and get off their home planet, and this will result in a mass migration of Romulans into space on an unpresidented scale, not only of Romulus but of any planet within 50 light years of that star about to go supernova, this may lead to a more aggressive Romulan Star Empire as it seeks to conquer new planets to accomodate its evacuating population.

Romulus Prime August 26 2012 07:29 PM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 6862412)
Quote:

Romulus Prime wrote: (Post 6860075)
Who says Romulus will be destroyed in this reality? It was already a bit different to begin with,

Only in as much as giving Trek a much needed visual upgrade. In-universe, it's the same.

Chekov is older, no George Kirk Jr. that we know of, Pike is older, technology seems a little more advanced and similar to what it would be in the late 23rd century, more aliens are in Starfleet at this time - just 5 things I can think of off the top of my head that prove the NuTrek universe has some distinct differences.

That's at least 5 differences before Spock and Nero show up, and there's no way to conclusively say there aren't any more on either a minor or major level. Fortunately, Parallels implies either is possible.

:vulcan:

Romulus Prime August 26 2012 07:35 PM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
Quote:

Mars wrote: (Post 6863321)
A star exploding is a pretty hard thing to stop, it occurs because the star runs out of fuel, Nothing anyone has done so far in this new timeline will stop that star from exploding, and Spock has very good reason not to...

Events in the NuTrek universe already aren't carbon copies of the "Prime" universe, and this is before Nero and Spock RIP THROUGH space-time. Then you have countless deaths and changes in events as a result of their intrusion which would not have occurred, a planet which is obliterated, never mind 4 instances of RIPS and HOLES in the space-time continuum. You can certainly believe events from one reality may copy in another, as they have been proven to do so in many regards. But you can't conclusively claim events from the "Prime" universe will repeat in this one with any amount of certainty. See Parallels for reference - hell, see ANY alternate universe episode for reference.

:vulcan:

Timo August 26 2012 07:49 PM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
Quote:

Nothing anyone has done so far in this new timeline will stop that star from exploding
How do we know? A tiny drop of red matter would suffice, apparently - and Nero spent several hours with the red matter before choosing to destroy Vulcan with it.

Among the things we know he did in that time was the supposed destruction of 47 Klingon warships, indeed something better achieved with a WMD than without. But he also tells Pike "I prevented genocide!" with enough volume and saliva to make it sound fairly convincing. So, considering that his ship came out of the timehole right next to a big red star that had Klingons nearby (as per the walla aboard the Kelvin in the opening moments), and that it had entered the timehole at a location where Spock had stopped an exploding star... Might that big red star not have been the one that would eventually explode and devour Romulus? A good reason for Nero to go challenge some Klingons and play around with his newly acquired supply of red matter!

Timo Saloniemi

King Daniel Into Darkness August 26 2012 10:08 PM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
Quote:

Romulus Prime wrote: (Post 6863624)
Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 6862412)
Quote:

Romulus Prime wrote: (Post 6860075)
Who says Romulus will be destroyed in this reality? It was already a bit different to begin with,

Only in as much as giving Trek a much needed visual upgrade. In-universe, it's the same.

Chekov is older,

Born years after the timeline split, and easily explained anyway by saying Chekov Prime enountered a little relativitic time distortion (or any number of Trek time anomaly) that his alternate self didn't.
Quote:

no George Kirk Jr. that we know of,
In a deleted scene and irrelevent anyway, since we saw 5 minutes of his childhood. We didn't see Butler, either.
Quote:

Pike is older,
According to Commodore Mendez in "The Minagerie", Pike is "...about [Kirk's] age." (34)
Now, "The Cage" was 15 years earlier. And Spock served with Pike for 13 years. So Pike took command of the Enterprise somewhere between the ages of 7 and 19.
Quote:

technology seems a little more advanced and similar to what it would be in the late 23rd century,
It's a movie made in 2009 not 1966. Thats why it looks "more advanced"
Quote:

more aliens are in Starfleet at this time
We never saw any of Starfleet during TOS. Besides - aliens only crop up when budget allows.
Quote:

- just 5 things I can think of off the top of my head that prove the NuTrek universe has some distinct differences.

That's at least 5 differences before Spock and Nero show up, and there's no way to conclusively say there aren't any more on either a minor or major level. Fortunately, Parallels implies either is possible.

:vulcan:
By the same token, I could claim ANY continuity glitches are "proof" that episode X or movie Y exist in an alternate reality. The writers of the film say the timelines split in 2233 and novel writers back it up.

UFO August 26 2012 10:28 PM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
Quote:

Mars wrote: (Post 6863321)
A star exploding is a pretty hard thing to stop, it occurs because the star runs out of fuel, Nothing anyone has done so far in this new timeline will stop that star from exploding, and Spock has very good reason not to reinvent red matter after it has destroyed his homeworld. The Romulans might try to invent the stuff, but they also have about a century before that star explodes and destroys their homeworld if they don't succeed, and many Romulans won't want to take the chance of being on Romulus when it explodes. Romulans are fairly long lived being related to vulcans, many are going to try and get off their home planet, and this will result in a mass migration of Romulans into space on an unpresidented scale, not only of Romulus but of any planet within 50 light years of that star about to go supernova, this may lead to a more aggressive Romulan Star Empire as it seeks to conquer new planets to accomodate its evacuating population.

I like the way you think! :) It would be great if the next film is based on something that is a rational extension of such a significant and founding event. There is obvious potential for dramatic stories, intellectual and moral considerations and even the odd explosion or two (as befits a "two hour movie" I understand).

In a way it would be a shame if Nero had already destroyed the offending star. But it would have been nice if the movie had actually explained what it meant by things like "I prevented genocide!" as mentioned by Timo. A natural disaster isn't genocide. If the implication is that Vulcans caused it somehow, then Nero's comment is probably referring to the destruction of Vulcan. In that case the is no longer a threat to Romulus but of course Nero is probably mistaken. Damn the writers strike!

Mars August 26 2012 11:53 PM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 6863738)
Quote:

Nothing anyone has done so far in this new timeline will stop that star from exploding
How do we know? A tiny drop of red matter would suffice, apparently - and Nero spent several hours with the red matter before choosing to destroy Vulcan with it.

Among the things we know he did in that time was the supposed destruction of 47 Klingon warships, indeed something better achieved with a WMD than without. But he also tells Pike "I prevented genocide!" with enough volume and saliva to make it sound fairly convincing. So, considering that his ship came out of the timehole right next to a big red star that had Klingons nearby (as per the walla aboard the Kelvin in the opening moments), and that it had entered the timehole at a location where Spock had stopped an exploding star... Might that big red star not have been the one that would eventually explode and devour Romulus? A good reason for Nero to go challenge some Klingons and play around with his newly acquired supply of red matter!

Timo Saloniemi

I don't believe Nero had the red matter until he captured Spock, and he only got Spock recently before he imploded Vulcan into a black hole, if he imploded a star, that would have attracted the attention of Star Fleet and would have ruined his surprise when he attacked Vulcan. A star big enough to go supernova is a very significant star to suddenly disappear into a black hole for no reason, the type of stars that go supernova are at least 10 solar masses, they have iron cores when they stop fusing light elements, and since fusing iron into heavier elements costs energy rather than releasing it, a star such as this collapses into a neutron star as the stars outer layers rebound against it and explode into a tremendous explosion. This star would have had to have been fairly close to Romulus to destroy the planet when it exploded, for other planets further away, you have ozone destruction and possible EMP radiation frying circuits causing massive planet wide blackouts and so forth for any planet within 50 light years of the explosion.

Mars August 26 2012 11:59 PM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
Quote:

UFO wrote: (Post 6864587)
Quote:

Mars wrote: (Post 6863321)
A star exploding is a pretty hard thing to stop, it occurs because the star runs out of fuel, Nothing anyone has done so far in this new timeline will stop that star from exploding, and Spock has very good reason not to reinvent red matter after it has destroyed his homeworld. The Romulans might try to invent the stuff, but they also have about a century before that star explodes and destroys their homeworld if they don't succeed, and many Romulans won't want to take the chance of being on Romulus when it explodes. Romulans are fairly long lived being related to vulcans, many are going to try and get off their home planet, and this will result in a mass migration of Romulans into space on an unpresidented scale, not only of Romulus but of any planet within 50 light years of that star about to go supernova, this may lead to a more aggressive Romulan Star Empire as it seeks to conquer new planets to accomodate its evacuating population.

I like the way you think! :) It would be great if the next film is based on something that is a rational extension of such a significant and founding event. There is obvious potential for dramatic stories, intellectual and moral considerations and even the odd explosion or two (as befits a "two hour movie" I understand).

In a way it would be a shame if Nero had already destroyed the offending star. But it would have been nice if the movie had actually explained what it meant by things like "I prevented genocide!" as mentioned by Timo. A natural disaster isn't genocide. If the implication is that Vulcans caused it somehow, then Nero's comment is probably referring to the destruction of Vulcan. In that case the is no longer a threat to Romulus but of course Nero is probably mistaken. Damn the writers strike!

Actually Spock probably failed to save Romulus and Nero was accusing him of neglecting it intentionally, and that is what send him on his course to get revenge on Vulcan. Spock probably sees it as his doing that destroyed Vulcan with Nero as the vehicle for that destruction, but he accepts no blame for the destruction of Romulus. And if the Romulans want him to make some more red matter, he would probably refuse if he could, or he'll say since the Vulcan Science Academy no longer exists, he'll apologize and say sorry it was a team effort and since a renegade Romulan from the future destroyed his planet, there is nothing he can do.

Romulus Prime August 27 2012 01:43 AM

Re: The Great Romulan Evacuation
 
Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 6864515)
(Re: Chekov)

Born years after the timeline split, and easily explained anyway by saying Chekov Prime enountered a little relativitic time distortion (or any number of Trek time anomaly) that his alternate self didn't.In a deleted scene and irrelevent anyway, since we saw 5 minutes of his childhood. We didn't see Butler, either.

According to Commodore Mendez in "The Minagerie", Pike is "...about [Kirk's] age." (34)
Now, "The Cage" was 15 years earlier. And Spock served with Pike for 13 years. So Pike took command of the Enterprise somewhere between the ages of 7 and 19.

It's a movie made in 2009 not 1966. Thats why it looks "more advanced"

never saw any of Starfleet during TOS. Besides - aliens only crop up when budget allows.

All these responses, and still the point I made about the aspect of differences in that reality remains.



Quote:

By the same token, I could claim ANY continuity glitches are "proof" that episode X or movie Y exist in an alternate reality.
Glad we agree.


Quote:

The writers of the film say the timelines split in 2233 and novel writers back it up.
They can say whatever they want. The fact that certain things are different prove otherwise. And getting back to my original point, until Romulus get's popped a 2nd time on screen, it's in the NuTrek universe indefinitely.

:bolian:


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