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-   -   TMP: Decker in Command? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=179437)

BillJ June 18 2012 04:30 PM

TMP: Decker in Command?
 
Is there any way the mission would've succeeded with Will Decker in command?
  • He was unwilling to go into the cloud, calling it an "unwarranted risk".
  • He recommends a phaser strike when the Enterprise had barely survived an earlier salvo from V'Ger.
  • He is reluctant to engage the Ilia-probe.

I just wonder what track he could've taken to make the mission successful? Under the conditions that he was unwilling to enter the cloud and was willing to use phaser-strikes against what was a far superior technological foe.

For what it's worth, I understand the real world reasons of Kirk's the hero... so he has to be right.

Jose Tyler June 18 2012 04:48 PM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
Most likely, no. He came across as cautious when he should have been brash, and brash when he should have been cautious. At some point he would have to beam all the carbon units off the Enterprise to the fourth planet, and the next thing you know he'd be in auxillary control drooling on a table, mumbling about how the fourth planet was there, but not anymore...

BillJ June 18 2012 04:51 PM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
Quote:

Jose Tyler wrote: (Post 6512584)
Most likely, no. He came across as cautious when he should have been brash, and brash when he should have been cautious. At some point he would have to beam all the carbon units off the Enterprise to the fourth planet, and the next thing you know he'd be in auxillary control drooling on a table, mumbling about how the fourth planet was there, but not anymore...

:lol:

C.E. Evans June 18 2012 05:03 PM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
I think the mission would have failed. IMO, the only reason it succeeded was because Kirk was willing to take the Enterprise directly into the heart of V'Ger and get up all in its business. I don't think much could have been done to stop V'Ger from the outside as Decker proposed. At best, it simply would have ignored the Enterprise as it continued to make its way otherwise unchallenged to Earth.

Therin of Andor June 18 2012 05:04 PM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 6512518)
Is there any way the mission would've succeeded with Will Decker in command?

Will Decker's command style is explored in the novel "A Flag Full of Stars" by Brad Ferguson, the DC Comics Annual #2 (Series II), "The Final Mission", and the "Enterprise Logs" short story, "Night Whispers" by Diane Duane.

T'Girl June 19 2012 05:56 AM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 6512518)
Is there any way the mission would've succeeded with Will Decker in command?

One of the jobs of a first officer is to present the Captain with option that the Captain might not have seen (Riker and the depressurization of the flight deck). Just because Decker pointed out the possibility of a phaser strike on the tractor beam emitter, does not mean he would have made the strike himself as Captain.

Similarly, another of the first officer's job is that he runs the ship, while the Captain runs the mission. So Decker's avocacy of more warp simulations prior to the first warp attempt was not a example of excessive caution, but him simply doing his job properly. Give the resulting worm hole effect, his advice to Kirk was correct.

Decker's position, his mind set, would have been different if he had been in the Captain's chair. The weight of the mission would have been on his shoulders, and he would have been the one making the command decisions. I believe he might still have delayed the first warp attempt, however the need to press on into the cloud after the Enterprise as attacked would have been Decker's priority, instead of Kirk's.

Don't forget, it was ultimately Decker's decision (and not Kirk's) to join with Illa and V'ger that accomplished the mission and saved Earth.


:)

BillJ June 19 2012 02:43 PM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 6515191)

Don't forget, it was ultimately Decker's decision (and not Kirk's) to join with Illa and V'ger that accomplished the mission and saved Earth.

Decker defined entering the cloud as an "unwarranted risk". If he doesn't enter the cloud, there is never an Ilia probe for him to merge with.

C.E. Evans June 19 2012 02:53 PM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 6516097)
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 6515191)

Don't forget, it was ultimately Decker's decision (and not Kirk's) to join with Illa and V'ger that accomplished the mission and saved Earth.

Decker defined entering the cloud as an "unwarranted risk". If he doesn't enter the cloud, there is never an Ilia probe for him to merge with.

Agreed. Decker wouldn't have taken the Enterprise into V'Ger if he had been in command.

Maurice June 20 2012 01:30 AM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
DECKER
That's precisely the point, Captain. We don't
know it'll do. Moving into that Cloud,
at this time, is an unwarranted gamble.
AT THIS TIME. It means Decker didn't think they should do it at the moment Spock recommend they proceed. They had just been attacked, and while the second attack had been broken off after Spock's sped-up message, Kirk had not even attempted further communication. Maybe as Captain, Decker would have tried that, and gone in after not receiving further reply. I mean, what else could he do? Follow the cloud and keep saying "Hello?" At some point he'd have been forced to go in. Kirk was just bolder, taking "they're not shooting" as an invitation to proceed.

C.E. Evans June 20 2012 02:49 AM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
Actually, we don't know that Decker would have taken the Enterprise inside V'Ger at all. All we can go by onscreen is that Decker didn't think it was a good idea and wasn't pleased when Kirk decided to do it anyway (in the background, you can see Decker react negatively upon Kirk's decision).

Maurice June 20 2012 02:57 AM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
^^^So you're saying that he'd have just flown alongside the cloud all the way to Earth when it didn't answer? Nonsense. There's a point at which a military man has to put himself in harm's way when civilians are in danger. His choices, sans communication, were opening fire (suicide, as proven by the Klingons) or going into the cloud to see what was there.

BillJ June 20 2012 03:13 AM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
Quote:

Maurice wrote: (Post 6519637)
^^^So you're saying that he'd have just flown alongside the cloud all the way to Earth when it didn't answer? Nonsense. There's a point at which a military man has to put himself in harm's way when civilians are in danger. His choices, sans communication, were opening fire (suicide, as proven by the Klingons) or going into the cloud to see what was there.

I agree that eventually he would have entered the cloud. But I think the mission would've came to a screaming halt if he fired phasers at the tractor beam like he suggested once inside V'Ger.

C.E. Evans June 20 2012 03:14 AM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
Quote:

Maurice wrote: (Post 6519637)
^^^So you're saying that he'd have just flown alongside the cloud all the way to Earth when it didn't answer? Nonsense.

Actually, it's not nonsense at all. If Decker believed that the Enterprise would be just wind up being captured (or worse, destroyed) once inside V'Ger, then staying outside would be the wisest course of action. Decker would have tried other means of trying to contact V'Ger.
Quote:

There's a point at which a military man has to put himself in harm's way when civilians are in danger.
There's a point in which a military man has to stay alive to protect those civilians in danger. Sacrifices shouldn't be wasted if there are other alternatives.
Quote:

His choices, sans communication, were opening fire (suicide, as proven by the Klingons) or going into the cloud to see what was there.
We actually don't know if Decker would have done that. All we can go from onscreen material by is that he wouldn't have. We also don't know what other alternatives Decker would have tried had he been in command.

Maurice June 20 2012 06:32 AM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
Your argument would be the equivalent of a tank commander who is the only thing standing between a town and an armored division with a record of destroying everything in its path who doesn't do anything else but radio the enemy because his tank mightn't survive the encounter.

newtontomato539 June 20 2012 08:14 AM

Re: TMP: Decker in Command?
 
The flagship Enterprise with Captain Decker in command with Admiral Kirk on board. Perfect! :techman: Better move.


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