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Relayer1 June 9 2012 01:10 PM

Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
It was discussed a while ago in the Enterprise relaunch thread, re the possibility of Archer living into the TOS era and it was (kind of) agreed that top end life expectancy as established by McCoy in TNG was around 150 years. In the real world I would expect that to be on the low side for the 23rd / 24th centuries, but this is about the Trekverse.

In the novels it has been established that all of the main TOS crew have survived (except Sulu ?) into the TNG era and beyond, most going the 'long' route and living through each year.

I would think it statistically unlikely that any non related group of people would all be naturally long lived and, having been watching reruns of TOS wondered if they have a common experience that would explain it.

In 'Miri' there could have been a 'leftover' effect of the disease that extended lifespan, but not all of the command crew were exposed. However, in 'This Side Of Paradise' the whole crew is exposed to the spores which as a side effect grant perfect health. This would have two effects - firstly to reset cellular degeneration back to that of an infant : the thirty something crew would effectively be zero years old again, and secondly, with perfect health as a starting point (which is near-impossible in nature) a very long life free of any disease other than those developed through infection seems likely.

What do you think ? Are the TOS crew all unusually long lived, and would that explain it ? Are there any events in other episodes that may be responsible ?

King Daniel Into Darkness June 9 2012 01:26 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
I don't mind most of the TOS crew being alive in the TNG era, but I have issues with what some of them are doing - like Uhura running Starfleet Intelligence, which sounds (and admittedly I haven't read "Vulcan's Soul" yet) like bad fanfic.

I do like to think maybe Jonathan Archer's Enterprise was the first Earth ship to visit Cereberus II ("To Short a Season"), or Archer skipped a few years with Daniels, simply because I find the idea of Archer and Kirk interacting at Starfleet Academy mind-blowingly awesome.

Relayer1 June 9 2012 02:37 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 6470299)
I don't mind most of the TOS crew being alive in the TNG era, but I have issues with what some of them are doing - like Uhura running Starfleet Intelligence, which sounds (and admittedly I haven't read "Vulcan's Soul" yet) like bad fanfic.

Well, a lot of time has passed - plenty enough fo a career change or two !

Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 6470299)
I do like to think maybe Jonathan Archer's Enterprise was the first Earth ship to visit Cereberus II ("To Short a Season"), or Archer skipped a few years with Daniels, simply because I find the idea of Archer and Kirk interacting at Starfleet Academy mind-blowingly awesome.

Well, for that matter, what could have happened to Archer (and crew ?) - I'd certainly like to see someone (or two) in the post Vanguard TOS era. T'Pol should certainly have made it, but what of the humans or Phlox ?

If you are going to carry characters forward like that, there has to be a reasonable explanation though.

Shon T'Hara June 9 2012 02:59 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
Well the Trek Lit writers seem to assume that McCoy's lifespan is entirely typical, what with Picard being a frontline commander in his 80s who sees nothing problematic about having a child at that late age, and Vaughn being over a hundred and still kicking ass. And of course, Losing the Peace establishes that McCoy's still a practicing doctor more than fifteen years after "Encounter at Farpoint".

On the other hand, such longevity isn't compatible with the TOS era where Kirk was complaining about getting old when he was still in his 40s. The only logical conclusion is that there were some major medical breakthroughs in the late 2200s -- although even that's problematic since "Too Short a Season" shows Admiral Jameson as a doddering old man in his 70s.

Christopher June 9 2012 03:06 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
Even today, different people age at different rates. Some people look old and decrepit by their 50s while others still look relatively youthful and robust in their 60s. And if future medical science improves longevity, then not everyone might benefit from the same advances.

Although as I see it, "Too Short a Season" straight-up goofed by ignoring the longevity increase implied by "Farpoint."

C.E. Evans June 9 2012 03:10 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
Quote:

Shon T'Hara wrote: (Post 6470557)
Well the Trek Lit writers seem to assume that McCoy's lifespan is entirely typical, what with Picard being a frontline commander in his 80s who sees nothing problematic about having a child at that late age, and Vaughn being over a hundred and still kicking ass. And of course, Losing the Peace establishes that McCoy's still a practicing doctor more than fifteen years after "Encounter at Farpoint".

On the other hand, such longevity isn't compatible with the TOS era where Kirk was complaining about getting old when he was still in his 40s. The only logical conclusion is that there were some major medical breakthroughs in the late 2200s -- although even that's problematic since "Too Short a Season" shows Admiral Jameson as a doddering old man in his 70s.

Pretty much this. McCoy reaching 137 was more the rare exception than the rule, but it seems like it's now the benchmark for all Humans.

Even an average lifespan of 120 would be a significant improvement over today, IMO.

captcalhoun June 9 2012 07:45 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
Maybe Jameson was so decrepit cuz he got too stressed out, drank, smoke and didn't exercise enough...?

E-DUB June 9 2012 10:40 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
McCoys exceptionalism has, I believe been attributed to his encounter with Fabrini medical know-how. But why him and no one else hasn't been adequately explained. The oldest people now don't really live all that much longer than the oldest people did a hundred years ago, it's just that more people are "maxing out" due to improved medical technology. What also skews the averages is that we don't have as much childhood death as we used to. I suspect that by Trek times the story is much the same. Some small improvement in "maximum lifespan", much increase in "average lifespan". McCoy, well, he's just to onery to die.

Relayer1 June 10 2012 01:29 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
But are there any other 'in-universe' explanations to the long life of the TOS crew such as in my original post ?

Christopher June 10 2012 02:08 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
Quote:

Relayer1 wrote: (Post 6475963)
But are there any other 'in-universe' explanations to the long life of the TOS crew such as in my original post ?

I don't see the need. McCoy's age of 137 in "Farpoint" and Jadzia's prediction in one episode that O'Brien would live to 140 suggest that that's a fairly typical life expectancy for humans in the 24th century, or toward the upper limit of life expectancy. Since O'Brien was included, it's clearly not limited to the TOS cast; and it's simple enough to conclude that future geriatric medicine is sufficient to explain the longevity increase.

Besides, the only canonical example we have of a human TOS character living that long is McCoy, plus Uhura and Chekov in the prose. That's at most three out of 400-odd crewmembers (considerably more if you count all the various comings and goings over the years). Okay, if you limit it to the core command crew that stuck together for decades, that's fully half the human population of the core group, a bit less if you count Chapel. Three out of a random sampling of six or seven living close to the maximum life expectancy (if it is maximum rather than average) would be anomalous, but this is three members of a closely associated group, so it's logical that they would've had common lifestyle factors affecting their longevity. As Starfleet officers they'd all stay in excellent physical condition, and they'd all have access to the finest medical care. The only problem is that, as Starfleet officers, they'd also be exposed to frequent danger, injury, radiation exposure, alien diseases and toxins, and other factors that would tend to shorten their life expectancy, statistically speaking. But if they managed to survive their years of active duty and ultimately end up in desk jobs, then their survival for decades beyond that is not unlikely if they maintained the good fitness habits they'd acquired and continued to have access to the finest medical care -- both reasonable expectations if they remained in Starfleet.

USS Intrepid June 10 2012 02:58 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
Wasn't Jameson dying from a disease? Perhaps that prematurely aged him.

captcalhoun June 10 2012 08:00 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
he was dying from Iverson's Disease. he was also (according to Mem Alpha) 85 at the time of his death, not in his 70s like Shon said.

USS Intrepid June 11 2012 11:21 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
So he could potentially have prematurely-aged as a result of the disease.

captcalhoun June 12 2012 07:31 AM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
possibly

Therin of Andor June 13 2012 07:29 PM

Re: Extended Lifespan In The Trek Universe
 
Quote:

USS Intrepid wrote: (Post 6476146)
Wasn't Jameson dying from a disease? Perhaps that prematurely aged him.

Intriguingly, that episode was supposedly pitched as a "return of Kirk/Shatner" episode, IIRC.


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