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The Overlord May 17 2012 05:24 PM

Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
I was this review of "Real Life" from sfdebris and it makes the point that Voyager has really bad continuity that events that should change a character's outlook are ignored, among other things. Is that a fair criticism?

http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated...review-6141673

MacLeod May 17 2012 05:33 PM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
Continuity on Voyager was certainly weaker than on other shows. Crew numbers seemed to fluctuate from episode to episode to name but another one.

Sindatur May 17 2012 06:09 PM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
Quote:

The Overlord wrote: (Post 6355987)
I was this review of "Real Life" from sfdebris and it makes the point that Voyager has really bad continuity that events that should change a character's outlook are ignored, among other things. Is that a fair criticism?

http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated...review-6141673

Yea, in the later years apparently the Plot determined a character's reactions more then the character's established continuity. In the first two seasons (and about half of Season 3) that I have finished watching so far, this hasn't seemed too much of a problem yet. A little tiny bit, perhaps, but, not glaringly obvious

sonak May 17 2012 07:11 PM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
it was no worse than TOS or TNG on continuity, it just gets more crap about it because television was more continuity-conscious by that point, plus VOY's premise demanded more attention paid to continuity.

Turd Ferguson May 17 2012 07:23 PM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
I think it was somewhere in the middle with DS9 then Enterprise having the best continuity followed by Next Gen then Star Trek. Once they made that initial 10,000 light year jump in "The Gift" then the subsequent jumps in "Dark Frontier" and "Hope and Fear" as well as "Timeless," there didn't seem to be any discrepencies as to their distance to the Alpha Quadrant (well, from Voyager's perspective. Some others were kinda iffy, such as running into the Equinox and the Talaxian colony).

There were various name drops to prior episodes. My one complaint, though, is how frigging huge the Delta Quadrant is. Just of the top of my head, they jumped 10,000 light years in both Dark Frontier and The Gift, 20,000 or so in Timeless not to mention the other jumps they made, factoring in the five years, they'd traveled almost 45,000 light years and were STILL in the Delta Quadrant. They should've at least been in the Beta Quadrant by that point.

BTW, I'm ignoring such inconsistencies as the shuttle count and photon torpedo compliment :p

Guy Gardener May 17 2012 07:27 PM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
Did you get tricked into buying the Star trek fact files? That glossy refill dumbed down version of the encyclopaedia that they then made you buy a ring binder to store? Seriously the guy at the news agency told me that it was 10 or 12 chapters at 7 dollars each per week tops.

Turned out to be closer to 80 chapters.

After 5 weeks, I just decided never to go back to that store ever again.

Some buggers job was to make us think that the details of this universe were worth obsessing over and that every thing was important and connected, but I doubt that the people in charge of highlighting these importances were anywhere near the pit where they make Star Trek.

I leant what I had to a friend.

3 years later I found that they had accidentally spilled an entire milkshake on the binder, and that all the pages were glued together, and it was easier to say that they would get around to finding it than replacing the frivolous investment.

The Overlord May 17 2012 07:27 PM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
Quote:

sonak wrote: (Post 6356629)
it was no worse than TOS or TNG on continuity, it just gets more crap about it because television was more continuity-conscious by that point, plus VOY's premise demanded more attention paid to continuity.

But I think that was the problem, having a show with almost no continuity was fine in the 80s and the 60s, but the mid 90s the landscape of television was changing and Star Trek didn't change with it. Star Trek ended up getting left behind.

MacLeod May 17 2012 08:29 PM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
Quote:

The Overlord wrote: (Post 6356734)
Quote:

sonak wrote: (Post 6356629)
it was no worse than TOS or TNG on continuity, it just gets more crap about it because television was more continuity-conscious by that point, plus VOY's premise demanded more attention paid to continuity.

But I think that was the problem, having a show with almost no continuity was fine in the 80s and the 60s, but the mid 90s the landscape of television was changing and Star Trek didn't change with it. Star Trek ended up getting left behind.

That's only partially true DSN also made in the 90's was more continuity conscious than VOY. So if you have two shows on at the same time one is doing continuity while the other is being more lax with it. It would tend to indicate that one creative team cared about these things, the other did not or at least not to the same extent.

Violet.Phoenix May 17 2012 08:48 PM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
In the earlier seasons I don't think it was as bad; they actually go back to a lot of things and address them. It's the later seasons that make me cringe due to the continuity.

Two things that always baffle me:

1. In "Dark Frontier" Chakotay tells Janeway that she fiddles with her combadge every time she's about to drop a bombshell. She never does this at any other time, before or after this episode. :wtf:

2. At the end of "Unimatrix Zero" we see Janeway in sickbay after being de-borgified, and she seems perfectly fine. It's all "oh just these damn spinal clamps" and nothing more. :wtf: Picard was haunted for years after his assimilation and yet Janeway's all fine and dandy?!

That is what bothers me about Voyager's continuity; they address something once (mostly in the later seasons) and then never go back to it.

JanewayRulz! May 17 2012 11:57 PM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
Quote:

Violet.Phoenix wrote: (Post 6357256)
In the earlier seasons I don't think it was as bad; they actually go back to a lot of things and address them. It's the later seasons that make me cringe due to the continuity.

Two things that always baffle me:

1. In "Dark Frontier" Chakotay tells Janeway that she fiddles with her combadge every time she's about to drop a bombshell. She never does this at any other time, before or after this episode. :wtf:

2. At the end of "Unimatrix Zero" we see Janeway in sickbay after being de-borgified, and she seems perfectly fine. It's all "oh just these damn spinal clamps" and nothing more. :wtf: Picard was haunted for years after his assimilation and yet Janeway's all fine and dandy?!

That is what bothers me about Voyager's continuity; they address something once (mostly in the later seasons) and then never go back to it.

The fiddle with the combadge was stupid and written by someone who obviously never watched the TV show or bothered to watch Mulgrew act. I would have had her start massaging the back of her neck as her "tell" while she was walking through the debris in cargo bay 2, or had her sit down and just place her chin in her hand while watching Torres & Seven play with the broken warp coil.

Picard lead the BORG in destroying Starfleet's armada at Wolf 359 (?). Janeway just punked the Queen. IMO she didn't have anything to feel guilty over.

My biggest complaint re: dropped ideas/"continuity" was that Axum was left on a BORG ship in a remote section Beta Quadrant. They made it sound "impossible" for him to return as a plot point, and yet he's on a BORG ship that can traverse vast distances in a blink of an eye. :wtf:

Violet.Phoenix May 18 2012 12:59 AM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
Quote:

JanewayRulz! wrote: (Post 6358378)
Quote:

Violet.Phoenix wrote: (Post 6357256)
In the earlier seasons I don't think it was as bad; they actually go back to a lot of things and address them. It's the later seasons that make me cringe due to the continuity.

Two things that always baffle me:

1. In "Dark Frontier" Chakotay tells Janeway that she fiddles with her combadge every time she's about to drop a bombshell. She never does this at any other time, before or after this episode. :wtf:

2. At the end of "Unimatrix Zero" we see Janeway in sickbay after being de-borgified, and she seems perfectly fine. It's all "oh just these damn spinal clamps" and nothing more. :wtf: Picard was haunted for years after his assimilation and yet Janeway's all fine and dandy?!

That is what bothers me about Voyager's continuity; they address something once (mostly in the later seasons) and then never go back to it.

The fiddle with the combadge was stupid and written by someone who obviously never watched the TV show or bothered to watch Mulgrew act. I would have had her start massaging the back of her neck as her "tell" while she was walking through the debris in cargo bay 2, or had her sit down and just place her chin in her hand while watching Torres & Seven play with the broken warp coil.

Picard lead the BORG in destroying Starfleet's armada at Wolf 359 (?). Janeway just punked the Queen. IMO she didn't have anything to feel guilty over.

My biggest complaint re: dropped ideas/"continuity" was that Axum was left on a BORG ship in a remote section Beta Quadrant. They made it sound "impossible" for him to return as a plot point, and yet he's on a BORG ship that can traverse vast distances in a blink of an eye. :wtf:

1. That makes much more sense as a tell, albeit a little harder to work into the script maybe, but still better.

2. I was referring the horrific physical transformation she went through in being turned into a drone. I think that would leave her a little shaken to say the least. You don't just recover from something like that without a little trauma.

3. Ah yes, Axum. I had forgotten about him. It really doesn't make sense that he cannot be retrieved. I would much rather have had him and Seven as a pairing rather than C/7. :ack:

exodus May 18 2012 01:17 AM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
Quote:

sonak wrote: (Post 6356629)
it was no worse than TOS or TNG on continuity, it just gets more crap about it because television was more continuity-conscious by that point, plus VOY's premise demanded more attention paid to continuity.

Agreed.
Nobody seems to remember, notice or care about the canon facts about Trills mentioned in TNG that are all but forgotten by DS9 or the inconsistency in the Cardassian uniforms in flashback episodes of DS9 and how those weren't the same style uniforms worn in TNG when they're introduced.
However, I think LOST, Law & Order and Voyager have shown you can still do a show that's fairly inconsistent and still grab a mass audience.
Besides, isn't the common stereotype about Trek/sci-fi fans is that we nitpick issues that don't matter to anybody else?
I very much doubt the casual viewer that watched Voyager was counting the shuttles or the torpedos and TPTB were very much aware of this and most likely found our complaints about it unimportant or unavoidable due to last minute script changes.

exodus May 18 2012 01:31 AM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
Quote:

Violet.Phoenix wrote: (Post 6358738)

2. I was referring the horrific physical transformation she went through in being turned into a drone. I think that would leave her a little shaken to say the least. You don't just recover from something like that without a little trauma.

You're not considering their mind set upon assimilation.
Picard wasn't prepared for it, the Borg took him against his will.
Janeway gave herself to them willingly. She was already mentally prepared for the assimilation and de-assimilation process. The Borg bent Picard to their will, Janeways mind was never fully connected to the collective. So Janeway her will was still her own. Unlike Picard or Sisko, Janeway didn't fear the Borg. Thanks to Picard and other captains that faced the Borg, it gave her enough insight to know how to circumvent them.

Violet.Phoenix May 18 2012 01:49 AM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
Quote:

exodus wrote: (Post 6358912)
Quote:

Violet.Phoenix wrote: (Post 6358738)

2. I was referring the horrific physical transformation she went through in being turned into a drone. I think that would leave her a little shaken to say the least. You don't just recover from something like that without a little trauma.

You're not considering their mind set upon assimilation.
Picard wasn't prepared for it, the Borg took him against his will.
Janeway gave herself to them willingly. She was already mentally prepared for the assimilation and de-assimilation process. The Borg bent Picard to their will, Janeways mind was never fully connected to the collective. So Janeway her will was still her own. Unlike Picard or Sisko, Janeway didn't fear the Borg. Thanks to Picard and other captains that faced the Borg, it gave her enough insight to know how to circumvent them.

Yes Janeway was mentally prepared and did give herself up willingly for assimilation. She also had a neural suppressant to prevent herself and her away team from being connected to the hive mind, but that does not mean that being turned into a drone was not a horrific experience. Mentally the trauma was minimized due to that preparation, but I doubt that any amount of preparation can minimize the physical trauma.

exodus May 18 2012 02:04 AM

Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?
 
Quote:

Violet.Phoenix wrote: (Post 6358984)
Quote:

exodus wrote: (Post 6358912)
Quote:

Violet.Phoenix wrote: (Post 6358738)

2. I was referring the horrific physical transformation she went through in being turned into a drone. I think that would leave her a little shaken to say the least. You don't just recover from something like that without a little trauma.

You're not considering their mind set upon assimilation.
Picard wasn't prepared for it, the Borg took him against his will.
Janeway gave herself to them willingly. She was already mentally prepared for the assimilation and de-assimilation process. The Borg bent Picard to their will, Janeways mind was never fully connected to the collective. So Janeway her will was still her own. Unlike Picard or Sisko, Janeway didn't fear the Borg. Thanks to Picard and other captains that faced the Borg, it gave her enough insight to know how to circumvent them.

Yes Janeway was mentally prepared and did give herself up willingly for assimilation. She also had a neural suppressant to prevent herself and her away team from being connected to the hive mind, but that does not mean that being turned into a drone was not a horrific experience. Mentally the trauma was minimized due to that preparation, but I doubt that any amount of preparation can minimize the physical trauma.

We've seen many times in Trek that doesn't happen.
We've seen Picard have major heart surgery and walk out the door right after it was done like nothing happened. We've seen Harry Kim walk away from an 8472 infection with no lasting trauma. The only time I can recall seeing physical trauma in Trek is when someone looses a limb or spinal surgery.


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