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EmoBorg April 16 2012 07:13 AM

Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
With the success of BSG among sci fi fans, may i suggest that the next star trek series present a more darker theme to its story telling. These are the following ideas for 1, 2 or 3 episodes story arcs.

1) A starfleet captain is bought to trial after discovering that he had ordered ,rather relutantly , the torture of captured Cardassian officers, in order to gather infomation about enemy bases and fleet movements during the Dominion war. The starfleet captain did this in order to minimalize starfleet casualties.

(a storyline that corresponds to contempory usage of waterboarding by the USA under george w bush)

2) A human scientist who performs lobotomy on aliens that he captures and kepts them as servants as he is prejudiced against non humans.

(yes, racisim still exist in the 24th century)

3) A starfleet ground combat unit that carrys out an unintended massacre of a ferengi colony near the ferengi/federation space. the ferengi are all killed down to the family memebers including women & children. Starfleet starts investigations & brings those involved to trial.

(similar to the my lai massacre incident during the vietnam war)

4) A entire race who are members of the federation starts to suffer a horrrbile genetic disease that proves incurable and causes their extinction. I nominate the denobulans as the soon to be extinct race as we see them in 22nd century (Enterprise Series) but not in the 23rd or 24th centuries which could mean that they are slowly dying off.

(In the babylon 5 series, there was this race called Markab who eventually die out due to a disease)

5) starfleet tolerating and even working with slave owning cultures along its border and federation citizens owning slaves and homes on those planets outside federation control.

(interesting moral issue, brings up the issue of states rights versus slavery which was a big issue that caused the american civil war)

6) Starfleet encounters a race where there are actually three genders but but the third gender is often killed as soon as they are born as they don't seem to have any use. That race like most races require only two genders to procreate but in their distant past, they needed 3 genders in order to procreate but they evolved from that to now only needing 2 genders. Because of that they kill the third gender because they have no use for that gender anymore.

(Gender rights issue)

7) A gay klingon, i want to see how how klingons deal with the issue of homosexuality. Who knows, may be they are more tolerant than we early 21st century humans are.

(LGBT issue)

8) zombies in space. We could have an episode where a starfleet medical ship picks up hundreds of sickly patients from a colony who slowly die and then reanimate as walking zombies. The starfleet ship becomes infested and the survivors fight back. We could have a "the walking dead" type of situation onboard the ship as the survivors await for rescue.

(zombies. I love zombies ! The TV series Andromeda had an episode about zombies infesting a ship but i always felt Star Trek could do it better.)

Bry_Sinclair April 16 2012 09:51 AM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
There are some interesting ideas in the mix here. Though I do agree that the next series should deal with darker issues (and also include story arcs), some of these seem unlikely in a 24th century Trekverse.

Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6189337)
1) A starfleet captain is bought to trial after discovering that he had ordered ,rather relutantly , the torture of captured Cardassian officers, in order to gather infomation about enemy bases and fleet movements during the Dominion war. The starfleet captain did this in order to minimalize starfleet casualties.

Thanks to Janeway (and Mr Lessing) we know that some captain's will resort to extreme measures to get answers and safeguard their ship. If the Captain/officer in question was like Ben Maxwell and also had a deeply personal grudge against the Cardies, I could maybe see that working.

Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6189337)
2) A human scientist who performs lobotomy on aliens that he captures and kepts them as servants as he is prejudiced against non humans.

I would say that would probably fit in better with the ENT-era, thanks to the establishment of Terra Prime (maybe TOS, with a few die-hard nutters still on the go, I would find it hard to believe by TNG time).

Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6189337)
3) A starfleet ground combat unit that carrys out an unintended massacre of a ferengi colony near the ferengi/federation space. the ferengi are all killed down to the family memebers including women & children. Starfleet starts investigations & brings those involved to trial.

My first thought was why is there a GCU there in the first place? Aside from S1 of TNG (when the Ferengi were suppose to be the new Big Bad :lol:) relations between the Ferengi and the UFP have never been overly hostile, so I don't see why Starfleet would need a combat team there. Now if it was post-DW at a Cardassian refugee camp, that i could buy.

Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6189337)
4) A entire race who are members of the federation starts to suffer a horrrbile genetic disease that proves incurable and causes their extinction. I nominate the denobulans as the soon to be extinct race as we see them in 22nd century (Enterprise Series) but not in the 23rd or 24th centuries which could mean that they are slowly dying off.

This is a bit of a direct rip off of the Markab, as well as ENT episode where they are contacted by a pre-warp species who were slowly dying off due to a genetic defect. I do like the idea of a people facing extinction, which is kinda covered with the Andorians in the DS9 relaunch books, which I would love to see in the next series.

Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6189337)
5) starfleet tolerating and even working with slave owning cultures along its border and federation citizens owning slaves and homes on those planets outside federation control.

The UFP has no control of species outside their territory, so other governments (even the Klingons) could have slaves and the Federation wouldn't be able to get involved (look at the Occupation of Bajor). I would find it doubtful they would have a trade agreement/alliance with a species that violated Federation rights (knowingly at least, slavery could be a very confidential issue that the aliens don't mention). As for UFP citizens (either current or former) owning slaves, that would depend on the individual who was living on that world, their own conscience and morals.

Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6189337)
6) Starfleet encounters a race where there are actually three genders but but the third gender is often killed as soon as they are born as they don't seem to have any use. That race like most races require only two genders to procreate but in their distant past, they needed 3 genders in order to procreate but they evolved from that to now only needing 2 genders. Because of that they kill the third gender because they have no use for that gender anymore.

This is really quite interesting. Though I would need to ask when/how the 3rd gender was killed? Would it be whilst still in the womb or after they were born? Then there is the option of some parents choosing to keep their children, so a small underground has been established for the 3rd gender.

Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6189337)
7) A gay klingon, i want to see how how klingons deal with the issue of homosexuality. Who knows, may be they are more tolerant than we early 21st century humans are.

Hidden Frontier featured a gay Klingon, and he seemed no different to any other and faced no prejudice. I think it had to do with he had no family to share his honour with, or something like that (its been a while since I watched the episode). He and his partner had to go through a ritual ceremony (no surprise there), which bonded them together (like a married couple). Whatever happens in the next series, a gay character must be included (but that's a topic for another thread).

Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6189337)
8) zombies in space. We could have an episode where a starfleet medical ship picks up hundreds of sickly patients from a colony who slowly die and then reanimate as walking zombies. The starfleet ship becomes infested and the survivors fight back. We could have a "the walking dead" type of situation onboard the ship as the survivors await for rescue.

I love zombies too! When I commanded a PBeM Sim back at uni, I had an episode where we were fighting zombies onboard an Ambassador-Class ship. It's a topic that I plan on revisiting again in my fanfic (soon-ish).

But those are just some of my thoughts and ideas.

FreddyE April 16 2012 12:39 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Darker? Please no, thanks. I would not want to watch that. One of the reasons I (and I think many other fans) like Star Trek is that it always presented a more or less hopefull and positive view of the future. Trek already has some scenes / episodes / movies where it went dark enough. I donīt think making a whole "dark" series to a great extent would be wise. For what itīs worth...I always saw ENT as already beeing "darker".

Admiral Buzzkill April 16 2012 01:35 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Star Trek: Enterprise did the zombie episode.

Andromeda did zombies? I remember the one where the crew of another ship turned out to be robots, but I gave up on the show after a season and a half. When did they do zombies?

EmoBorg April 16 2012 02:10 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Quote:

My Name Is Legion wrote: (Post 6190243)
Star Trek: Enterprise did the zombie episode.

Andromeda did zombies? I remember the one where the crew of another ship turned out to be robots, but I gave up on the show after a season and a half. When did they do zombies?

I know that the Enterprise Series did that with the vulcans "zombies" in season 3 episode "Impulse" but revisting the zombies theme again in a future star trek series will be fun.

The Andromeda tv series season 2 episode called "Dance of the Mayflies" had "zombies" on the Andromeda Ascendant warship.

EmoBorg April 16 2012 02:31 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Quote:

FreddyE wrote: (Post 6190069)
Darker? Please no, thanks. I would not want to watch that. One of the reasons I (and I think many other fans) like Star Trek is that it always presented a more or less hopefull and positive view of the future. Trek already has some scenes / episodes / movies where it went dark enough. I donīt think making a whole "dark" series to a great extent would be wise. For what itīs worth...I always saw ENT as already beeing "darker".

The world is a far darker place now, my friend. Star Trek was born in the idealism of the 1960s. Now we live in a far darker age. BSG was the last successful true sci fi show on tv and it was dark. Maybe a dark and exciting new star trek show is needed nowdays.

Stargate Universe (SGU) was dark but it was boring and the writing could have been better and it did get better in the 2nd season.

So the next Star Trek series need to be darker, but better written than those of SGU and Caprica (i was bored to hell watching that show)

SuperXPS April 16 2012 03:15 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
DarkER?
Darker than a Bog Invasion causing billions of deaths and almost wiping out every race inthe Alpha and Beta Quadrants?
Darker than political assasination to manipulate trends in a war?
Darker than genocide?
Darker than Section31?

After 9-11 [ONE terrorist attack that was massivly milked to death by tv and drama] they all became obsessed with darker themes in shows.

Please no we've done enough darkness, we need to go back to the optimism, ask most people why ST appealed to them they often say it was the brighter vision of the future, the 21st century is starting to look like the dystopia from the RoboCop movies so there is a demand for a vision of a brighter future.

With a world now filled with austerity, famines, economic hardship, mass unemployment, rising gun violence, wars etc people don't wanna turn on their tv and be slapped inthe face with the idea that things are going to get WORSE as time goes on. Espechally since the economic end of things is going to get much worse within the next few years before things rebound and society demands a diffrent way of doing things, its more important than ever that a positive vision of the future be portrayed.

EmoBorg April 16 2012 04:15 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Quote:

SuperXPS wrote: (Post 6190603)
DarkER?
Darker than a Bog Invasion causing billions of deaths and almost wiping out every race inthe Alpha and Beta Quadrants?
Darker than political assasination to manipulate trends in a war?
Darker than genocide?
Darker than Section31?

After 9-11 [ONE terrorist attack that was massivly milked to death by tv and drama] they all became obsessed with darker themes in shows.

Please no we've done enough darkness, we need to go back to the optimism, ask most people why ST appealed to them they often say it was the brighter vision of the future, the 21st century is starting to look like the dystopia from the RoboCop movies so there is a demand for a vision of a brighter future.

With a world now filled with austerity, famines, economic hardship, mass unemployment, rising gun violence, wars etc people don't wanna turn on their tv and be slapped inthe face with the idea that things are going to get WORSE as time goes on. Espechally since the economic end of things is going to get much worse within the next few years before things rebound and society demands a diffrent way of doing things, its more important than ever that a positive vision of the future be portrayed.

Do you want star trek to go back to TNG or VOY style of show. I mean i don't mind as i became a fan of star trek by watching TNG and VOY (my favourite fyi) but nowdays TV programming is quite different from the 80s and 90s.

9/11 really messed things up. A lot of programes on tv nowdays reflect that change. The TV series "24" was hugely sucessful and it was a product of our times.

We could still try to go back to TNG/VOY type of star trek show but will it work nowdays? Will it attract the audience we need to keep star trek alive on TV? The main reason that i support a darker themed star trek series, is that hopefully it will have a longer run on tv.

C.E. Evans April 16 2012 04:21 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6190441)
Quote:

FreddyE wrote: (Post 6190069)
Darker? Please no, thanks. I would not want to watch that. One of the reasons I (and I think many other fans) like Star Trek is that it always presented a more or less hopefull and positive view of the future. Trek already has some scenes / episodes / movies where it went dark enough. I donīt think making a whole "dark" series to a great extent would be wise. For what itīs worth...I always saw ENT as already beeing "darker".

The world is a far darker place now, my friend. Star Trek was born in the idealism of the 1960s.

Idealism? People thought the world was going to end in a nuclear holocaust and that humanity's days were actually numbered in the 1960s...

Those were dark times.

EmoBorg April 16 2012 04:23 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 6190819)
Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6190441)
Quote:

FreddyE wrote: (Post 6190069)
Darker? Please no, thanks. I would not want to watch that. One of the reasons I (and I think many other fans) like Star Trek is that it always presented a more or less hopefull and positive view of the future. Trek already has some scenes / episodes / movies where it went dark enough. I donīt think making a whole "dark" series to a great extent would be wise. For what itīs worth...I always saw ENT as already beeing "darker".

The world is a far darker place now, my friend. Star Trek was born in the idealism of the 1960s.

Idealism? People thought the world was going to end in a nuclear holocaust and that humanity's days were actually numbered in the 1960s...

Those were dark times.

well they had the hippies.

C.E. Evans April 16 2012 05:04 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6190822)
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 6190819)
Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6190441)

The world is a far darker place now, my friend. Star Trek was born in the idealism of the 1960s.

Idealism? People thought the world was going to end in a nuclear holocaust and that humanity's days were actually numbered in the 1960s...

Those were dark times.

well they had the hippies.

Who were largely protesting the dark way society seemed to be heading at the time with their peace and love thing.

Today we call them the Occupy Movement.

EmoBorg April 16 2012 05:56 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 6191014)
Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6190822)
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 6190819)
Idealism? People thought the world was going to end in a nuclear holocaust and that humanity's days were actually numbered in the 1960s...

Those were dark times.

well they had the hippies.

Who were largely protesting the dark way society seemed to be heading at the time with their peace and love thing.

Today we call them the Occupy Movement.

Well who watched sci fi shows in 1960s it was the baby boomers who also protested in the 1960s. i don't think that the previous GI generation watched star trek at the same level as the baby boomers.

The Occupy Movement is much more darker than the hippies if you ask me. Some of the Occupy movement members have resorted to violence. Hippies are not violent. Charles Manson was not a hippie even though he looked like one. He adopted the hippie look to get impressionable teens to join his cult and he was a racist and hippies are not racist.

C.E. Evans April 16 2012 06:01 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6191287)
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 6191014)
Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6190822)

well they had the hippies.

Who were largely protesting the dark way society seemed to be heading at the time with their peace and love thing.

Today we call them the Occupy Movement.

Well who watched sci fi shows in 1960s it was the baby boomers who also protested in the 1960s. i don't think that the previous GI generation watched star trek at the same level as the baby boomers

Apparently, Star Trek and other sci-fi shows appealed to a wide range of people, not just one specific group.
Quote:

The Occupy Movement is much more darker than the hippies if you ask me. Some of the Occupy movement members have resorted to violence. Hippies were not violent.
Not all hippies were peaceful either. Still, you can't let the actions of a few cause the condemnation of an entire group.
Quote:

Charles Manson was not hippie even though he looked like one. He adopted the hippie look to get impressionable teens to join his cult and he was a racist and hippies are not racist.
Charles Manson was crazy and a bad example to everyone.

EmoBorg April 16 2012 06:44 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 6191320)
Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6191287)
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 6191014)
Who were largely protesting the dark way society seemed to be heading at the time with their peace and love thing.

Today we call them the Occupy Movement.

Well who watched sci fi shows in 1960s it was the baby boomers who also protested in the 1960s. i don't think that the previous GI generation watched star trek at the same level as the baby boomers

Apparently, Star Trek and other sci-fi shows appealed to a wide range of people, not just one specific group.
Quote:

The Occupy Movement is much more darker than the hippies if you ask me. Some of the Occupy movement members have resorted to violence. Hippies were not violent.
Not all hippies were peaceful either. Still, you can't let the actions of a few cause the condemnation of an entire group.
Quote:

Charles Manson was not hippie even though he looked like one. He adopted the hippie look to get impressionable teens to join his cult and he was a racist and hippies are not racist.
Charles Manson was crazy and a bad example to everyone.

We seem to be going off topic here but i do believe a darker themed Star Trek series will work with today's audience.

C.E. Evans April 16 2012 06:50 PM

Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series
 
Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6191548)
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 6191320)
Quote:

EmoBorg wrote: (Post 6191287)

Well who watched sci fi shows in 1960s it was the baby boomers who also protested in the 1960s. i don't think that the previous GI generation watched star trek at the same level as the baby boomers

Apparently, Star Trek and other sci-fi shows appealed to a wide range of people, not just one specific group.
Not all hippies were peaceful either. Still, you can't let the actions of a few cause the condemnation of an entire group.
Quote:

Charles Manson was not hippie even though he looked like one. He adopted the hippie look to get impressionable teens to join his cult and he was a racist and hippies are not racist.
Charles Manson was crazy and a bad example to everyone.

We seem to be going off topic here but i do believe a darker themed Star Trek series will work with today's audience.

Trek doesn't need to be darker. If anything, it needs to be more fun these days. Darker themes can be explored in various stories, but it need not be a new premise or basis.


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