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-   -   Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=164092)

The Overlord March 2 2012 12:38 AM

Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive? He was part of a terrorist group before he joined Voyager, yet he often seemed to be a pacifist in Voyager and often seemed cowed by Janeway. He should have been far more pragmatic, more likely to disregard Star Fleet regulations, which he had no reason to belief in.

Chakotay saying stuff like "a man doesn't own land" doesn't make sense, when he was part of a terrorist group that was formed to protect the land they owned.

Chakotay would have been much more interesting if they focused on the fact he used to be a terrorist leader, rather then making him a Native American stereotype.

F. King Daniel March 2 2012 01:22 AM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
Janeway castrated him. His most epic moment of fail was when Janeway sent him to his room in "Equinox"

You_Will_Fail March 2 2012 01:25 AM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
Because the writers weren't inspired by the character and left him to rot spouting the odd technobabble or filler line for much of the show.

teacake March 2 2012 01:53 AM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
Quote:

The Overlord wrote: (Post 5922721)
Chakotay saying stuff like "a man doesn't own land" doesn't make sense, when he was part of a terrorist group that was formed to protect the land they owned.

Yep it doesn't make sense. They made him into pacifist spiritual indian dude but he came out of the Maquis, a group whose agenda and ideals he never once espoused. Pacifist spiritual indian dude is BORING and cliched.

Quote:

KingDaniel wrote: (Post 5922964)
Janeway castrated him. His most epic moment of fail was when Janeway sent him to his room in "Equinox"

You have to have 'em first before they can cut them off.

Guy Gardener March 2 2012 01:55 AM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
Just because Chuckles doesn't want other bastards to own land, it doesn't want mean he wants it.

I had a large theory I can only remember a fraction of, but basically, the most excellent terrorists, you know, suicide bombing for the cause fanatics, can't Captain Starships just like hippies selling flowers at the airport for heavenly father shouldn't be allowed to fly f15s. Maybe they're not morons, but the best terrorists probably can't even work on a starship as anything more complicated than a deck swabber because maybe the Maquis are highly trained posturban spaceprofessionals and maybe they're highly trained pastoral farmers...

It was probably Chakotays ship? Is it more likely that Chakotay brought a ship to the cause and they had to make him a captain, or that they gave a man like Chakotay a ship even though he couldn't be trusted to go for blood when the Ruling Quarters of the Maquis really needed to go for a body count to get their point across, just because he could make sure the thing got from a to b and didn't blow up during the course of which?

Remember when you were a kid and you'd play sports. Some times you'd have to let an asshole, or someone who's shit at the sport play on your team because he owned the ball... And other times you let the kids who are ten times better than you play because they were ten times better than you and you would win, even if it meant that you never got to touch the ball because you were ten times worse than them...

I think if Chakotay didn't have a political officer, then most likely there was a secret political officer who answered to the Maquis directly and had the authority to demote or kill Chakotay for the good of the cause if Chakotay started making stupid decisions.

He had two spies working under him, why not 3?

Stephen! March 2 2012 01:55 AM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
Maybe they just didn't want him to be like a male version of Kira.

exodus March 2 2012 02:01 AM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
He explains it in his "Angry Warrior" story in "Resolutions".
He was looking for a woman to take on his burdens so he wouldn't have to be angry anymore. By him finding Janeway and getting them stuck in the DQ, made all his problems go away because now all the problems became hers.
In other words, Chakotay was a lazy deadbeat that was going to make his woman work while he stayed home and picked his ass all day.
Seriously, I don't see why J/Cers wanted Janeway to hook up with such a no good nothing of a man as Chakotay.
Janeway couldn't castrate a man that never had any balls to begin with.

Guy Gardener March 2 2012 02:02 AM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
But Kira was awesome!

I thought the angry warrior speech was about getting in her pants?

Maybe he as too vain to accept that those bullshit lines only work on drunk women?

Methos March 2 2012 02:15 AM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
because he was serving on a ship under Mistress Janeway lol... maybe he did have a more agressive attitude on his own ship where he had free reign...

M

Gotham Central March 3 2012 03:18 PM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
Quote:

The Overlord wrote: (Post 5922721)
Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive? He was part of a terrorist group before he joined Voyager, yet he often seemed to be a pacifist in Voyager and often seemed cowed by Janeway. He should have been far more pragmatic, more likely to disregard Star Fleet regulations, which he had no reason to belief in.

Chakotay saying stuff like "a man doesn't own land" doesn't make sense, when he was part of a terrorist group that was formed to protect the land they owned.

Chakotay would have been much more interesting if they focused on the fact he used to be a terrorist leader, rather then making him a Native American stereotype.

Honestly, the real world answer to this is that the writers on the show did not want to deal with the implications of having a man get in Janeway's face...and there was no way that a male character would be allowed to do that AND be proven right. If you watch the show carefully, you'll notice that the only characters to ever seriously question anything that Janeway does...and do so with any force are women. Lt Torres, Seska, Seven etc. All of the men were just passive. Someone decided early on that the only proper way to depict the first female captain was for her to either always be right or never get challenged by the men around her.

Sisko never had that problem. Kira could and did get in his face. He would occasionally, metaphorically swat her back into line, but would also be shown coming around to her way of thinking. It was a much more dynamic relationship. Of course, Sisko was in a situation were everyone around him, with the possible exception of O'Brien, had no problem telling him what they really thought. Part of Sisko's strength was that he was depicted as a character that knew how to deal with the strong personalities of his crew and the often duplicitous people that he came into contact with.

Dukhat March 3 2012 03:48 PM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
Quote:

The Overlord wrote: (Post 5922721)
Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?

Because he's not an aggressive and assertive individual. He was a "terrorist" because he was forced to be, and his resistance activities only lasted for a year or two. Compare that to Kira, who was a resistance fighter all her life and didn't know anything else.

Anwar March 3 2012 04:36 PM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
Quote:

Gotham Central wrote: (Post 5930878)
Part of Sisko's strength was that he was depicted as a character that knew how to deal with the strong personalities of his crew and the often duplicitous people that he came into contact with.

Also, he was a man.

Enterprise is Great March 4 2012 06:59 AM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
UPN cut off his balls. The Starfleet/Maquis conflict wasn't all that well liked by UPN which is why it pretty much petered out early on in the show. I think as a result of that Chakotay was pretty much neutered. Plus Beltran wasn't that great of an actor so he couldn't pull it off all that well a lot of that time.

Guy Gardener March 4 2012 07:30 AM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
In the beginning, he punched out that guy over soup.

claiming that, that's how things would have gone down on a Maquis Ship.

On Voyager, being a pussycat assured him his position.

On the Valjean being a homicidal maniac assure him his position.

Some people find it harder to be a wiiss than a head case, in either case Chakotay adapted to his environment to make certain majority rule didn't try to whack him.

You have to wonder if janeway would have learnt to deal with things in a maquis way, putting her foot up peoples asses till they do their job propperly if she had become his first officer abord the Maquis Raider?

A while back in comics, Magneto (as good as) called Chuck Xavier an asshole for never trying to walk a mile in his shoes (HA! Oh! Onslaught! BURN!!! this happened BEFORE Onslaught!! Major burn!) which was a bitch movie on his part since, once upon a time the master of magnitism had stepped up and took over the Chuck's school mainting a syllabus applauding the straight and narrow when he didn't have to, or really feel like it at all.

Yevetha March 4 2012 10:39 PM

Re: Why wasn't Chakotay more aggressive and assertive?
 
Quote:

On the Valjean being a homicidal maniac assure him his position.
Werent the Maquis better then that?


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