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DataLoreSpock December 30 2011 12:05 AM

The Borg
 
:borg: What do you think about the link between The Original Series being linked to the Borg's existance?
What I am talking about:
According to Empire: The World's Biggest Movie Magazine,Trekkies have been trying to link a group of humans who left Earth to better artificial techlology. (This group is from The Original Series) Reportedly,they were not reallly heard of again.
What are your thoughts on the matter or do you have a different opinion about the Borg.

Tiberius December 30 2011 03:23 AM

Re: The Borg
 
Whut?

When did that happen?

Even if that did happen in an episode, the Borg have been around for "thousands of centuries" according to Guinan. Unless these were stone age people leaving Earth, the theory doesn't work.

DataLoreSpock December 30 2011 06:07 AM

Re: The Borg
 
Yeah. The theroy would not work.
That is probably why it was inofficial.
Long story short, Empire said that it was just a theroy.
It was an unofficial theroy proposed by some unknown Trekkies.
Apparently, what Guinan said in the episode Q-Who? was not put in effect.
I just wanted your thoughts on the matter.

DataLoreSpock December 30 2011 06:09 AM

Re: The Borg
 
Yeah. The theroy would not work.
That is probably why it was unofficial.
Long story short, Empire said that it was just a theroy.
It was an unofficial theroy proposed by some unknown Trekkies.
Apparently, what Guinan said in the episode Q-Who? was not put in effect.
I just wanted your thoughts on the matter.

The Castellan December 31 2011 04:01 PM

Re: The Borg
 
I'd rather trust what the wise Guinan said.

I just want to know why did Starfleet have the 22nd century Borg incident hushed up until about 2 centuries later? Because I would hold Starfleet personally responsible for the havoc caused by the Borg during the years they were first 'officially' known. That would be an interesting story to look upon.

DataLoreSpock December 31 2011 11:29 PM

Re: The Borg
 
Guinan is reliable.
She even could tell that something was not right with the Enterprise in Yesterday's Enterprise.
She also has been around for a long time.

Shikarnov January 1 2012 12:17 AM

Re: The Borg
 
Quote:

The Castellan wrote: (Post 5509936)
I'd rather trust what the wise Guinan said.

I just want to know why did Starfleet have the 22nd century Borg incident hushed up until about 2 centuries later? Because I would hold Starfleet personally responsible for the havoc caused by the Borg during the years they were first 'officially' known. That would be an interesting story to look upon.

I imagine it was classified at the highest levels and eventually forgotten entirely. Two centuries is a long time, after all, and even if it wasn't, I can't imagine too many people that would connect the dots between a strange encounter with unnamed aliens trapped in Earth's polar icecap and the nearly indestructible Borg who were first encountered across the galaxy.

The Castellan January 1 2012 12:32 AM

Re: The Borg
 
Quote:

Shikarnov wrote: (Post 5512495)
Quote:

The Castellan wrote: (Post 5509936)
I'd rather trust what the wise Guinan said.

I just want to know why did Starfleet have the 22nd century Borg incident hushed up until about 2 centuries later? Because I would hold Starfleet personally responsible for the havoc caused by the Borg during the years they were first 'officially' known. That would be an interesting story to look upon.

I imagine it was classified at the highest levels and eventually forgotten entirely. Two centuries is a long time, after all, and even if it wasn't, I can't imagine too many people that would connect the dots between a strange encounter with unnamed aliens trapped in Earth's polar icecap and the nearly indestructible Borg who were first encountered across the galaxy.


Dunno why it would be classified to begin with.:confused:

Shikarnov January 1 2012 12:40 AM

Re: The Borg
 
^ Well, for one thing, governments and military organizations are fond of their secrets. :lol: On top of that, I'm sure there are a number of security implications surrounding whatever advanced technology was found/retrieved. In our own era, we don't exactly leave important weapons or energy schematics laying around for anybody to access, so why would Starfleet / UESPA?

DataLoreSpock January 1 2012 12:56 AM

Re: The Borg
 
Governments are keen on keeping EVERYTHING secret.
Just to list some:
-Area 51 a.k.a. 'Dreamland'
-The Roswell Incident
-The More Recent 50 ft. perimeter surrounding the Pentagon
-Alien spacecraft crusing around the Moon
-Any Alien Abductions
It only seems prudent that they would still deny other types of aliens even though we know of their existance.

The Castellan January 2 2012 10:02 AM

Re: The Borg
 
Quote:

DataLoreSpock wrote: (Post 5512663)
Governments are keen on keeping EVERYTHING secret.
Just to list some:
-Area 51 a.k.a. 'Dreamland'
-The Roswell Incident
-The More Recent 50 ft. perimeter surrounding the Pentagon
-Alien spacecraft crusing around the Moon
-Any Alien Abductions
It only seems prudent that they would still deny other types of aliens even though we know of their existance.

Oh, trust me, I am aware of that happening today....though from experience on the forum, people don't like hearing about them, they tend to get hostile.

And why Starfleet, of all folks, would still adhere to a Brookings style policy? Bad enough they got a Prime Directive, now it seems self imposed.

And look where Starfleet wound up, loosing 40 ships and crew to the Borg. Why would Starfleet keep secret stuff? Treating citizens and personal like children never has positive results, be it in our world or the Trek world. I hold to the idea that Starfleet's personally responsible for the deaths and destruction the Borg caused in their early appearances. And I think some pretty harsh punishments should be dealt to the ones who decided to keep it secret and to the ones who enforced them and kept the cloak and dagger mentality going. And it's supposed to be the people and citizens who control the government, not vice versa, though most folks would probably get bent out of shape at that concept.

Quote:

^ Well, for one thing, governments and military organizations are fond of their secrets. :lol: On top of that, I'm sure there are a number of security implications surrounding whatever advanced technology was found/retrieved. In our own era, we don't exactly leave important weapons or energy schematics laying around for anybody to access, so why would Starfleet / UESPA?
Yea, and look at the hell our world is in today with that system. I think we'd probably have a much more advanced world, publicly, if it were the other way around.

CaptainJack January 3 2012 07:15 AM

Re: The Borg
 
What if this group of people who left Earth to better artificial technology encountered a time traveling worm hole. Its not that far fetched in the Trek Universe...

7thsealord January 3 2012 02:45 PM

Re: The Borg
 
Quote:

The Castellan wrote: (Post 5512576)
Quote:

Shikarnov wrote: (Post 5512495)
Quote:

The Castellan wrote: (Post 5509936)
I'd rather trust what the wise Guinan said.

I just want to know why did Starfleet have the 22nd century Borg incident hushed up until about 2 centuries later? Because I would hold Starfleet personally responsible for the havoc caused by the Borg during the years they were first 'officially' known. That would be an interesting story to look upon.

I imagine it was classified at the highest levels and eventually forgotten entirely. Two centuries is a long time, after all, and even if it wasn't, I can't imagine too many people that would connect the dots between a strange encounter with unnamed aliens trapped in Earth's polar icecap and the nearly indestructible Borg who were first encountered across the galaxy.

Dunno why it would be classified to begin with.:confused:

Could make for problems as regards exploration and diplomacy. If all your culture seems to be interested in is looking for killer robots that aren't there, other cultures will probably start looking at you kinda funny. ;)

Also, you may start overlooking more pressing and immediate problems in favour of what was, on the face of it, one isolated incident in a very very big Galaxy. Compared to the Xindi probe that carved a big hole in Florida around the same time, and the Romulan War just a few years down the track, this was very small beer indeed.

There is also the security aspect as regards other groups. OK, maybe the Earth Alliance / UFP couldn't figure out Borgtech and how to deal with it. But, would they REALLY want even their limited data falling into the wrong hands? There would be individuals and groups less constrained by questions of ethics or safety, who would probably have no problems with using / misusing this technology any way they could.

As an extreme worst-case scenario, imagine that in the time between TOS and TNG, the Cardassians (or the Romulans, or the Breen, or whoever) developed and used crude Borgtech-based weaponry against the UFP. Things could get incredibly nasty rather quickly.

I can appreciate why secrets are kept. Not all secrets SHOULD be kept, and I don't believe in secrecy for its own sake. But, it is incredibly easy to invoke 20-20 hindsight and smugly judge how something-or-another should or should not have been done a long time after the fact. Bear in mind that the people stuck with these kinds of decisions in the first place are often acting on limited data and even less time.

Saying that making something secret was the wrong decision - because something BAD happened two hundred-plus years later - is grossly oversimplifying, to put it nicely. IMO

ToddKent January 4 2012 06:22 PM

Re: The Borg
 
Who says that they did keep it a secret? How's this for a timeline:

The NX-01 encounter the Borg. Dr. Phlox figures out how to de-assimilate people. The Borg send a message to their home world to come assimilate Earth.

Archer rights up a report and presents it to Starfleet. Starfleet files it away but some scientists/security personnel are probably interested in this unnamed species and maybe they put some work into researching them. But with no further information or contact there's not a lot they can do so they move forward with other work.

With the Xindi crisis and later the Romulan War, the files on the Borg get put way back on the back burner and forgotten.

100 years later the El-Aurian refugees that Kirk saves mention that the Borg destroyed their home world (Who knows how long ago). Someone at Starfleet may have put 2 and 2 together to connect the Borg to the unnamed species that was encountered by the NX-01 but maybe not. Maybe the El-Aurians weren't forthcoming with details? (They're listeners, not talkers). But again, if Starfleet Intelligence did think that the Borg & the unnamed aliens were the same, what could they do? They have no additional data or contact so the info returns to the back burner.

60-70 years later the Hansen family stumble across the information and start working on researching the species. The more they look into it the more credible evidence they discover. They might have connected the two incidents or they may not have. Regardless, they took off to go find the Borg and we know how that ended.

Years later the Borg receive the message that the time traveling Borg sent in the 22nd century and attack and assimilate colonies near the Federation/Romulan neutral zone. No one suspects the Borg because why would they?

The next year Q sends the Enterrpise to meet the Borg. Starfleet finally learns the name of the species.

Starfleet then assembles a team (including Shelby) to research the Borg. The team may or may not have connected the Borg to the 22nd century incident. (The probably did at this point).

The next year BoBW happens and the Borg become common knowledge. Dr Crusher researches how to get cybernetic implants off of people and hits on Dr. Phlox's work which helps her de-assimilate Picard.

Years later the crappy Borg storylines in Voyager happen.

So I think it's not a matter of a cover up but just not realizing that different incidents were significant and related.

Shikarnov January 5 2012 12:55 AM

Re: The Borg
 
^ An eminently plausible timeline.

As an aside, I always liked how the writers made Q an unappreciated hero. The Borg were already in the Alpha Quadrant. Simply nobody knew about it. Had Q not sent the Enterprise to J25, humanity's subsequent encounter with the Borg might very well have resulted in the end of the Earth.


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