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-   -   Frank Miller completely loses the plot (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=151570)

Captaindemotion November 15 2011 06:21 PM

Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
Quote:

The “Occupy”movement, whether displaying itself on Wall Street or in the streets of Oakland (which has, with unspeakable cowardice, embraced it) is anything but an exercise of our blessed First Amendment. “Occupy” is nothing but a pack of louts, thieves, and rapists, an unruly mob, fed by Woodstock-era nostalgia and putrid false righteousness. These clowns can do nothing but harm America.

“Occupy” is nothing short of a clumsy, poorly-expressed attempt at anarchy, to the extent that the “movement” – HAH! Some “movement”, except if the word “bowel” is attached - is anything more than an ugly fashion statement by a bunch of iPhone, iPad wielding spoiled brats who should stop getting in the way of working people and find jobs for themselves.

This is no popular uprising. This is garbage. And goodness knows they’re spewing their garbage – both politically and physically – every which way they can find.

Wake up, pond scum. America is at war against a ruthless enemy.

Maybe, between bouts of self-pity and all the other tasty tidbits of narcissism you’ve been served up in your sheltered, comfy little worlds, you’ve heard terms like al-Qaeda and Islamicism.

And this enemy of mine — not of yours, apparently - must be getting a dark chuckle, if not an outright horselaugh - out of your vain, childish, self-destructive spectacle.

In the name of decency, go home to your parents, you losers. Go back to your mommas’ basements and play with your Lords Of Warcraft.

Or better yet, enlist for the real thing. Maybe our military could whip some of you into shape.

They might not let you babies keep your iPhones, though. Try to soldier on.

Schmucks.
http://frankmillerink.com/2011/11/anarchy

Now, whether or not you agree with either the aims or tactics of the protestors, to besmirch them all - and they include war veterans, housewifes, pensioners, actors - as rapists, louts and thieves, is hardly indicative of a well-thought-out, cogent and rational argument.

Needless to say, there have been many unhappy responses, but the following strikes me as one of the best:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit.../news/?a=49815

Quote:

It's 2011, and your most prolific contribution to comics in recent years was All-Star Batman and Robin. It took you 3 years to get 10 books out, and when they did come out, man I was pleased. The story was insane. Just as insane as your take on Batman in TDKR and TDK2. Fun reads, man. Good times for all.

Except, Mr. Miller, not only did you experience diminished returns in these recent books, which may be what led you to become so angst-ridden, but these are not depictions of Batman. These are examples of you using your well-earned writing credentials from your early work to continue to make a name for yourself by bastardizing others' work and the legacy of popular characters. While TDKR was a milestone in comics, it was still an off-the-wall alternate take on not just Batman, but the entire DCU. Which is what made it great. Though your apparent lack of ability to write anything inside continuity begs the question of whether you can even relate to others in the industry or readers in the real world. Your characterizations are often far-removed from reality, blatantly mouthpieces for your own insane drivel, and by extension, self-involved, and lacking any hint of true human nature. Don't even get me started on Holy Terror. Mainly because it was so awful I couldn't read it. So the fact remains apparent, that your best work is behind you. All-Star Batman and Robin was also fun as hell, but Jesus, man, that ain't Batman. That's the Goddamn Batman, basically an entirely new character. Your attempts at being radical and fresh in order to garner a reputation worked well in your early career, but these days, the more you write, direct, produce, and even say publicly, the more you exhibit how out of touch you are. It was one thing when you were just slowly becoming a dinosaur in the comics industry. But now you've gone and spoken out about the current affairs of our country. Christ, man...take your Centrum and watch Jeopardy and shut up. Your time, not just as a comics writer, but as a positive member of society, is up...

[N]o matter what you or anyone say, these people believe what they are doing is right and they have the freedom to express that. You certainly have the right to voice your opinion as well, but at least be responsible enough to be factual. Yes, there have been rapes, and drugs. This, unfortunately, is pure mathematics and human behavior. Enough people in one place, and these things statistically happen in any nearly any given scenario. For every rapist, there are 10,000 hard-working Americans who have had their chance at the American Dream shat upon by rising unemployment, unscrupulous corporations, via sub-prime loans and tax loopholes that ensure their(your) riches while the fortune of most Americans falls. I am not saying socialism or wealth distribution are the answer, but it is obvious when one views facts and statistics that the current system is breaking down. And since you were so baseless and without mercy in your calling out of OWS, it is only fair I return the favor...

Your career was a fluke, forged upon the backs of real talent and iconic stories, with a couple of accidental revelations here and there(300, Sin City), neither of which beyond the surface, are anything more than cock-in-hand macho narratives that appeal to those of us who once in a while enjoy spending money on entertainment with no true emotional or thematic value. Your contributions to popularizing comics in a mainstream format are undeniable, but you could have the decency to do as other flukes before you, like Kurt Cobain did, and die before you become a joke with nothing to offer the world.

Apparently fear-mongering and the omnipresent and unkillable "threat" of terrorism and Islamacism have done what they seem to do to most out-of-touch old folks: Scared the living piss out of you and corrupted your mind to the point at which you can no longer see other, possibly more immediate, threats to our country. Your remarks are those of a man who lives inside his comfort bubble and occasionally casts detached glances down at the very peasants who have spent their hard-earned money to lift you up to your throne.

Does the Occupy Movement need to get its act together in order to accomplish anything? Yes. But it is a young movement that appears to be doing nothing but growing and collecting its popular beliefs and forming directives through a democratic system, which may take some time. Some point to the fact that OWS should be blaming government, not corporations, like the Tea Party. As with anything, the truth lies smack in the middle: Government is owned by corporations and lobbyists. The two sides have much more in common than they realize, just separated into two views. In order for real change to occur, these two seemingly opposing views should be reconciled. That's my take.

From what I can tell based on conversations with fellow comic book fans, articles, comments, box office returns, and critical reception of your work in the last 10 years, I am in the majority of folks who want you to just go away now. We are the The Goddamn 99% of people who don't give a goddamn about you anymore. And if I were to sum up your overinflated ego, and offer proof of its effect on your ability to create anything worthwhile; to further show evidence of your being out of touch with the world , I would simply use two words: "The Spirit". "Bowel Movement" indeed.
(Highlighting added by me, as I thought it the best part of the letter!)

Christopher November 15 2011 06:34 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
I think we can do better than sinking to Miller's level in response to him. People like him have dragged the debate down too much already, and that's the reason we can't fix our problems -- because we're too busy calling each other names.

Frank Miller long ago ceased to have anything worth saying. We should just quietly walk away from his ranting and concentrate our attention on worthwhile ideas and pursuits instead.

Robert Maxwell November 15 2011 06:38 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
Frank Miller is a fascist, a bigot, and a lunatic, who wrote some well-received comic books once upon a time.

Forbin November 15 2011 06:56 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
It's interesting that he and Anne Nocenti both wrote Daredevil. They're about as polar opposites, politically, as two people can be.

OmahaStar November 15 2011 06:59 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
Every word he wrote sounds like it was written by Orson Scott Card. I can't take either of them seriously. They both need help.

Robert Maxwell November 15 2011 07:03 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
Quote:

OmahaStar wrote: (Post 5349727)
Every word he wrote sounds like it was written by Orson Scott Card. I can't take either of them seriously. They both need help.

Good call. OSC is about on the same level as Miller in terms of being an authoritarian bigot.

the G-man November 15 2011 07:05 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
There's already a lengthy thread about this in the Neutral Zone. Do we really need another?

In any event, for all the talk about Miller's lack of civility and unfair attempts to tar an entire movement with a broad brush, I've seen as bad, or worse, said about conservatives, tea partiers, republicans, etc., on this board time and time again.

Robert Maxwell November 15 2011 07:06 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
Quote:

the G-man wrote: (Post 5349738)
There's already a lengthy thread about this in the Neutral Zone. Do we really need another?

Not everyone goes to TNZ. Besides, as many people as possible should be made aware of Miller's idiotic raving.

Quote:

In any event, for all the talk about Miller's lack of civility and unfair attempts to tar an entire movement with a broad brush, I've seen as bad, or worse, said about conservatives, tea partiers, republicans, etc., on this board time and time again.
The difference is that Miller gets a national platform to spread his hateful ideology. The rest of us don't. It's not a legitimate comparison.

the G-man November 15 2011 07:10 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
So multiple threads on the same subject and intemperate remarks are okay when it fits the mods generally narrow political views? Why am I unsurprised?

[added later] Also, in order to truly discuss Miller's post, one must be able to discuss the OWS movement itself: it's goals, its tactics, its membership. All of which means that this entire thread can-and will-easily be about nothing but politics and current events. Are the mods prepared for, and willing to allow, that?

Robert Maxwell November 15 2011 07:13 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
Quote:

the G-man wrote: (Post 5349754)
So multiple threads on the same subject and intemperate remarks are okay when it fits the mods generally narrow political views? Why am I unsurprised?

Why, it's amazing we let you post here at all! :rolleyes:

It astounds me how right-wingers--who, by and large, hold most of the power and resources in this world--still play the persecution card with no sense of irony.

{ Emilia } November 15 2011 07:15 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
Quote:

Robert Maxwell wrote: (Post 5349766)
Quote:

the G-man wrote: (Post 5349754)
So multiple threads on the same subject and intemperate remarks are okay when it fits the mods generally narrow political views? Why am I unsurprised?

Why, it's amazing we let you post here at all! :rolleyes:

It astounds me how right-wingers--who, by and large, hold most of the power and resources in this world--still play the persecution card with no sense of irony.

Yeah, only white protestant Christians suffer as much as right-wingers.

Incidentally the two groups overlap a bit.

the G-man November 15 2011 07:17 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
Quote:

Robert Maxwell wrote: (Post 5349766)
Quote:

the G-man wrote: (Post 5349754)
So multiple threads on the same subject and intemperate remarks are okay when it fits the mods generally narrow political views? Why am I unsurprised?

Why, it's amazing we let you post here at all! :rolleyes:

It astounds me how right-wingers--who, by and large, hold most of the power and resources in this world--still play the persecution card with no sense of irony.


No sense of persecution. Just pointing out your hypocrisy.

Robert Maxwell November 15 2011 07:21 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
Quote:

the G-man wrote: (Post 5349773)
Quote:

Robert Maxwell wrote: (Post 5349766)
Quote:

the G-man wrote: (Post 5349754)
So multiple threads on the same subject and intemperate remarks are okay when it fits the mods generally narrow political views? Why am I unsurprised?

Why, it's amazing we let you post here at all! :rolleyes:

It astounds me how right-wingers--who, by and large, hold most of the power and resources in this world--still play the persecution card with no sense of irony.


No sense of persecution. Just pointing out your hypocrisy.

No hypocrisy here. I'm not a hypocrite just because I disagree with you. :)

OmahaStar November 15 2011 07:21 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
Quote:

Robert Maxwell wrote: (Post 5349766)
Quote:

the G-man wrote: (Post 5349754)
So multiple threads on the same subject and intemperate remarks are okay when it fits the mods generally narrow political views? Why am I unsurprised?

Why, it's amazing we let you post here at all! :rolleyes:

It astounds me how right-wingers--who, by and large, hold most of the power and resources in this world--still play the persecution card with no sense of irony.

They believe Fox News, which continues to tell them they are persecuted, and that there is a massive "liberal bias" in the news media. Which, I guess, to THEM there would be ... when it's right down the center.

There's a poster here whose name I cannot remember. S/he has a sig line which really rather fits this, something to the effect of "Fox news is rich people paying rich people to convince middle income people that all the world's problems are caused by poor people." It's true.

PsychoPere November 15 2011 07:23 PM

Re: Frank Miller completely loses the plot
 
Quote:

the G-man wrote: (Post 5349754)
So multiple threads on the same subject and intemperate remarks are okay when it fits the mods generally narrow political views? Why am I unsurprised?

There's no hypocrisy here. It's a long-standing tradition that multiple threads on the same subject can be allowed when they are in different forums that generally have different audiences. See past threads on elections that have been allowed to remain in Misc. even while similar threads were in TNZ, for example. For a non-political example, see the threads on the "Tatooine"-esque planet discovery that simultaneously existed in Science & Technology and Misc a few months back.

Quote:

the G-man wrote: (Post 5349754)
Also, in order to truly discuss Miller's post, one must be able to discuss the OWS movement itself: it's goals, its tactics, its membership. All of which means that this entire thread can-and will-easily be about nothing but politics and current events. Are the mods prepared for, and willing to allow, that?

On this, you do raise a good point. With such a discussion, this thread would probably be more suited to Misc. than TVM. If the TVM mods decide that it is, I imagine they'll move the thread to the forum they feel is most appropriate. There is, however, no reason that it can only be discussed in TNZ.


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